018 – Interview with Sebastien Foucan (part 2 of 3)

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Episode Summary

Sebastien Foucan and Craig continue their conversation in the second part of Sebastien’s three part interview. In this episode, Sebastien discusses how he trains, how he coaches, and how he prepares for his roles in various movies and films. Craig and Sebastien also discuss the influence genetics and natural skill has on the success of a person in their sport.


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Coaching and Genetics

Sebastien: [13:07] I want to talk about the coaching. I want to talk about do we have more … does anyone come up with a new idea, new game, new stuff for foot eye coordination?

Craig: [13:18] Right.

Sebastien: [13:18] How much we can push the … be more specific. That’s where I am. Okay. That’s why we didn’t talk.

Sebastien: [13:26] This idea of a simple move. Okay. Like cat pass for example, or kong they call it. They shouldn’t call it kong but, anyway. Okay. It is the way it is. Then to cat pass to precision. For those that don’t know it’s like you, I don’t know how to describe that but, cat pass to precision which now is … it bring you two things. Also, when you do cat pass to precision often if it’s not a bar if it’s a wall there is this notion of blind jump. You have to run and jump into this. There is all this stuff that happens with the brain and the visualization and everything. All this stuff is really interesting. Okay. That’s what I’m talking, this is real technique. Now we get into the-

Craig: [14:05] We would say the minutia, the little tiny details.

Sebastien: [14:07] Yeah, for me it’s really cool. Then you got the mental aspect. ‘Kay. Some people it’s like … some people are willing to take risks and some people don’t. Then also we talk about fear. Also, fear is in motion. I didn’t have the same fear, for example when I was, let me see … where my fear was the last was … I would say was around Angry Chicken. That’s where I literally discovered I’ve got potential. None of my friend taught me because everyone want to say, “Okay, I won’t tell him everything because I want to be good.”

Sebastien: [14:42] At this time I knew I had potential because I also I say Angry Chicken won Lion d’Or, prize for that.

Craig: [14:49] The gold lion is right.

Sebastien: [14:50] Yeah. For me it’s like, yeah, if you got prize for something you’ve done it’s you. Along the way I thought to rely that. Maybe we can talk later on about this idea of denial or something like that. Okay. It’s something dear to me, very important. That’s it. You start to realize even they don’t give you the prize in your hand, now you start to understand what you’ve got. At this time I’ve got less fear. Still, because I was with now my wife but, which was my girlfriend at this time … don’t let me think. I didn’t say anything cause Angry Chicken was in … well, when was it 2003? Sorry. I think it was 2003. I just had my daughter, my first daughter 2003.

Sebastien: [15:42] I think it’s interesting when you’ve got a baby your motivation, everything raise a level up. By same time, later on, very soon you start to have this responsibility things and you start to be careful of yourself. You don’t want to let the person that is with you by themself.

Craig: [16:00] Right.

Sebastien: [16:00] You know what I mean?

Craig: [16:01] Yeah.

Sebastien: [16:02] That’s where fear start kick in. It’s okay, now. Don’t take that much risks or something like that. Even I wasn’t a risk taker but, it affect your performance. That’s why I wanna talking about this mental aspect. I say, “Okay, how do I train myself? How do I prepare myself for that?”

Sebastien: [16:19] That’s why I do what I call LLP, a sort of motivation. I record my self, video of myself with positive reinforcement like Muhammad Ali did, ” I’m the greatest in the world.”

Sebastien: [16:32] See, I’ve got video when I say that. “I’m the best.” It’s personal. It’s my stuff.

Sebastien: [16:37] Bruce Lee had something like that. Kind of PNL when he say, “Hi, Bruce Lee will be the highest paid martial art … ” I do it for-

Craig: [16:45] Right.

Sebastien: [16:52] … this you see. In the … he say exactly the date when he’s gonna be, he’s gonna have $1 million or something like that.

Craig: [16:52] Right, he was very specific about his goals. NLP is neuro linguistic programming and then you said PNL is just the-

Sebastien: [16:58] Yeah.

Craig: [16:58] … French.

Sebastien: [16:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Craig: [16:58] Turned in French-

Sebastien: [16:59] NLP

Craig: [16:59] … is the-

Sebastien: [16:59] Yeah. NLP.

Craig: [17:05] … order is different. Can you unpack a little bit. How did you first discover NLP and …

Sebastien: [17:06] Basically, I didn’t discover it. It’s through, it’s afterward. I started because I knew I’d lack of … basically, for me I start to understand I call it MPT, okay? It’s why I do when I do coaching. It’s like there is the mental- m, p- physical, t- technical. I kind of … I’m very into … I try to find the cause of my ignorance. For me it’s a lot about time table and stuff like that to really understand. For me I start to make a graphic just for me. This is stuff I never share. This is the first time ever I shared this stuff.

Sebastien: [17:39] I make this and for me it’s like, “Okay, it term of percentage, where I am?” Physically I think based on my DNA and everything, you’re 90%t kind or an 80% something like that. Like 80 to …

Craig: [17:54] Yeah, total person.

Sebastien: [17:55] Technically where are you? It was like kind of technically because we’re old school. The old school guy we are not that technique, compared to now we were just like okay we do a drop jump and I do a big arm jump and-

Craig: [18:05] Right.

Sebastien: [18:25] … big, big, big. That’s it. It wasn’t as technical on that. Technically I was maybe 30/40 is what I say. Mentally I would say I was 10%. You see that’s what I was. Once I draw that, you see. It’s rough for you.

Craig: [18:26] Right, right.

Sebastien: [18:27] That’s my feeling. That’s how and it was pretty correct when I said this exactly. Then I knew say, “Ah.” Then my training change. Why do I have to train physically when I’m gifted physically?

Craig: [18:36] Yeah, I’m already so far ahead.

Sebastien: [18:38] You see.

Craig: [18:38] Diminishing returns

Sebastien: [18:38] You know what I mean. I can sit practice a cardio. Cardio is important. I was young. Flexibility, I’ve got natural flexibility. I’ve got quick, quick fiber.

Craig: [18:48] Right.

Sebastien: [18:48] I’m very explosive. I’ve got all this stuff, already. That’s why it’s so they discover my brother and my brother did the Olympic. He trained, okay but, he’s got the potential based on the family.

Craig: [19:01] Genetics, right.

Sebastien: [19:01] Genetics, ‘kay. That’s something I can talk about, this because I always talk about how people think, “Yeah, we can train. We’re all the same.” No, we’re not all the same. I’m so sorry guys.

Craig: [19:09] Yeah, right.

Sebastien: [19:10] I’m gonna [crosstalk 00:19:10]-

Craig: [19:10] There’s different potential.

Sebastien: [19:13] … I did it. I call it nemotechnique. You know nemotechnique?

Craig: [19:14] Nemo?

Sebastien: [19:16] It’s like sometimes you use sometimes to remember.

Craig: [19:19] Oh, a mnemonic?

Sebastien: [19:21] Mnemonic, ah, okay. Sorry.

Craig: [19:21] Mnemonic

Sebastien: [19:22] Sorry.

Craig: [19:23] No, it’s fine.

Sebastien: [19:23] Mnemonic, okay. I’m gonna say that because it’s like that, it’s fun my stuff. I say it’s a sentence it means nothing in French but, it’s mean … I see how to, where is it written? “En general la choix et la condition prime toujours sur la chance,” which mean nothing, right? Okay. In general, hold on I’m gonna say it in English.

Craig: [19:43] Nothing ’cause my French is horrible. Yes.

Sebastien: [19:45] In general, okay, the choice and the condition … prim… is like goes before-

Craig: [19:53] Primary, goes before.

Sebastien: [20:01] … primary, prim, always before luck. That’s, okay. Now we’re gonna explain why.

Craig: [20:01] Always take precedence to luck or always primary to luck, right?

Sebastien: [20:04] For me it’s the [inaudible 00:20:05] factor to say this is why not everyone will be a champion. My answer is because, “En general la choix et la condition prime toujours sur la chance.” It’s a … how do you say it?

Craig: [20:18] Mnemonic.

Sebastien: [20:18] Mnemonic, sorry, mnemonics.

Craig: [20:20] Don’t be shy.

Sebastien: [20:21] I’m learning.

Craig: [20:21] I’m happy we’re doing this in English.

Sebastien: [20:27] “en general” – E-N means ENtourage. Okay. “General”, is G-E so it’s for GEnetic. Okay. Then the choice is literally the choice and the condition is literally the condition. Okay. Primary I took it for pyramid, see. You see?

Craig: [20:48] Oh, okay. Okay

Sebastien: [20:49] Just for pyramid it helped me. Okay. After always “sur la chance” on luck so, luck is right there. There is entourage that’s why you will not everyone is gonna be a champion because you need to have a good entourage, like Michael Jordan had a good entourage.

Craig: [21:08] Right.

Sebastien: [21:08] Or [inaudible 00:21:09] had a good entourage. Mike Tyson has a good entourage. Even he was a diamond. If he never met … ‘Cus D’Amato doesn’t happen. Then you got genetics. That’s why you can miss Cus D’Amato but if you don’t have the genetics-

Craig: [21:24] Genetics.

Sebastien: [21:25] You can meet the Michael Phelps’ trainer.

Craig: [21:29] Robert.

Sebastien: [21:29] You can see progress, won’t be like Michael Phelps. Then you’ve got a choice because I can genetically be shape to be the greatest gymnast in the world but, if I prefer to do golf-

Craig: [21:44] Right.

Sebastien: [22:03] … I miss the opportunity to become that person. That’s a choice. Then there’s the condition, “la condition”. Everything has to be well set up. ‘Kay. For example Tiger Wood when his dad set up around him a particular condition, you know like the golf-

Craig: [22:04] The club.

Sebastien: [22:12] … the club. He say like when he was young they follow, they make regularly measure him. They make sure he swing never change, technically.

Craig: [22:12] Right.

Sebastien: [22:12] They make it bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger.

Craig: [22:14] Yeah

Sebastien: [22:15] You see what they make the-

Craig: [22:16] The clubs are right.

Sebastien: [22:42] … perfect condition for him to achieve. You even have this guy I think his name was Rudy. Rudy something like that. He says like this guy was around they thought it was his friend but, no his dad bring him because for the … he thought like Tiger would need a mental reinforcement like something make sure he’s got all the edge, psychology to make sure is on top. You see, he was prepared to be that. He had qualities but, this is why not everyone is gonna be a champion.

Sebastien: [22:47] Then after you got the condition then the “pyramidal”, pyramid, prime, pyramid. In the world of competition it’s a pyramidal system. Only one person is going to be on top, only one. Also, it doesn’t … even if you got the talent, you’ve got the right entourage, I can even make sure you never get there because it’s kind of political. There’s all this stuff aspect. You didn’t expect but, I had this, this, this. No because someone make something-

Craig: [23:16] Out maneuvered you.

Sebastien: [23:22] … yeah maneuver. Still it’s such a high competition yet, at the end only one has to be there.

Sebastien: [23:23] The last one is luck. It just happened that … like Mike Tyson say why does he start to pick up on boxing. It just happened moment that he visiting prison and he came in this prison where Mike Tyson was and Mike Tyson say, “I want to take courses not about cooking-

Craig: [23:44] Knitting or cooking, right.

Sebastien: [24:10] … and stuff like that. I want to do boxing.” It just happened … that’s luck and you can find it again and again. That’s why I did this. It’s very important because for me that’s what initiate the idea of training. That’s why sometimes I say, “No, I’m not training that. That’s wasting time because I know now I probably won’t be the champion.” Why? Because I wanted to be … how do you call like in basketball the guy who’s the tallest and was like Shaquille O’Neal?

Craig: [24:12] The tallest, what do you mean?

Sebastien: [24:14] Oh, okay, I sorry. I think it’s power forward or something like … I don’t know the name. They’ve got everyone has a-

Craig: [24:19] Yeah, I don’t follow basketball, sorry.

Sebastien: [24:20] It doesn’t matter. I say it because I’m a … I almost say I’m a freerunner but, that’s … I’m an explorer. You see that’s a true name because freerunning has turned into something completely French. However, that was the original idea. Now you can see I did get to … people say, “Oh, you sort of other place.” I’m an explorer but, there is a spine there, a common-

Craig: [24:38] A thread.

Sebastien: [24:39] Yeah, yeah.

Craig: [24:39] A through line.

Sebastien: [24:40] Then basically, if I like Shaquille O’Neal and I really admire, he’s my hero and I want to play basketball no chance that I’ll be in his position. No chance because I’m five foot five. You see what I mean.

Craig: [24:56] Right.

Sebastien: [24:56] It’s like voilà . There is no point to put all my energy to pretend and to try to push people around and-

Craig: [25:03] Right.

Sebastien: [25:03] … everything.

Craig: [25:03] Genetics are missing.

Sebastien: [25:13] … because Craig you’re taller than me. Okay. For a basketball player you’re small. Okay. But for me I’m what? I’m a hobbit. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?

Craig: [25:17] Right.

Sebastien: [25:17] Let’s be realistic.

Craig: [25:18] Right.

017 – Interview with Travis Tetting

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Episode Summary

Travis Tetting joins Craig for a heartfelt discussion of his coaching journey, community, and building things from the ground up. Along the way he describes his love for his community and the rewards of coaching. Travis explains how his bond to his family and Christian faith have given him the strength to get to where he is today.


The Journey to ADAPT Level 2

Craig: [00:48] Tell me about being stuck in the airport on the way to American Rendezvous.

Travis: [00:52] Yes. Yes. So original flight, I’m not gonna give any names. No names. Okay? Not gonna be a flight bias, ’cause …

Craig: [01:01] We only name the guilty.

Travis: [01:02] It was … Yeah, it was almost completely because of the weather in Boston. So we can blame Boston.

Craig: [01:07] Okay.

Travis: [01:07] That’s okay.

Craig: [01:08] Yeah.

Travis: [01:08] Yeah, we’ll point the finger at Boston. So 7:40 PM flight from Chicago, and I live in Wisconsin. So about an hour and half drive, so, I mean, you can’t just adjust and say, “Okay, I’ll stay at home.” Right? I got email when I was at home saying it was going to be delayed 15, 20 minutes. So not a big deal.

Craig: [01:25] Sucker. Right?

Travis: [01:27] Go down to the airport, maybe … I don’t know, 5:30, 6:00 I get there, check in, everything’s fine. Then, about every 15 minutes, where you hook into the airport wifi …

Craig: [01:38] Right.

Travis: [01:38] You’re sitting there, and you get a … You’re looking, also, at the screen, and it says, “Flight delayed another 15 minutes,” and ding. You see on your phone, “Oh, my flight’s delayed.” So ’til about … Maybe ’til about 11:30 PM, those continued. So you’d be sitting there …

Craig: [01:55] Every 15 minutes, ding.

Travis: [01:56] Yeah, you’re sitting there for, like, 14 emails, right? You’re sitting there, and people are dropping away. Right? There’s like, “I’m gonna get the 6:00 AM flight,” and they go out and get their hotel. You’re just looking around and you’re like, “Yeah, we’re the patient ones. We’re the strong ones. Hold strong. It’s coming. It’s coming.”

Craig: [02:10] The hardcore terminal …

Travis: [02:13] We keep asking the poor ladies up at the desk, and they’re not supposed to be there, either.

Craig: [02:16] Yeah.

Travis: [02:16] So they’re tired. They’re fatigued. “What’s going on in the flight?” It was sitting on the tarmac for, like, two hours. Right? Then us with sympathy, we’re like, “This isn’t so bad. I can walk around, and people are stuck on the plane in a thunderstorm without anywhere to go for, like, two hours.”

Craig: [02:33] Whoa.

Travis: [02:34] So, eventually, they bring the plane back. Everybody gets off the plane in Boston, because after a certain amount of time on the tarmac, they have to let them off.

Craig: [02:40] Right.

Travis: [02:41] Then there’s something wrong with the plane, so they get a new plane. Again, this is all true, 100% true. They get a new plane, a new pilot, new crew, get the people back on, and, eventually, at, like, 1:00 in the morning, the flight … No, maybe, like, 12:30, the flight takes off.

Craig: [02:58] From Boston to come to you, right?

Travis: [03:00] To come to us, right. This is the flight we’re waiting for. We’re so excited. There’s rejoicing in the terminal. The flight gets there, and we’re all weary. We’ve gotten our beautiful, free, blue, baby blue blankets and our pillow, and there’s so many canceled flights that the entire airport at O’Hare is broke out in cots. So it’s become a shelter.

Craig: [03:21] Tentville, right?

Travis: [03:21] It’s become a shelter. The flight comes in. Everybody’s getting off, and we’re kind of like giving ’em fists in the air. We’re like, “Yeah. You finally made it.”

Craig: [03:31] They’re as weary as you are …

Travis: [03:32] Right.

Craig: [03:32] … just to get there.

Travis: [03:32] Right, right, right. So, finally, the last people to come off are the pilots and the crew, and they just keep their heads down and just walk quite quickly past everybody.

Craig: [03:43] Right, right.

Travis: [03:44] We’re all sitting there, and we kind of look at the concierge people. The concierge people look at us, and she just puts her hands together. She’s like, “Hmm. It’s probably not good.”

Craig: [03:54] Right, ’cause shouldn’t they be on the plane getting ready to go back?

Travis: [03:56] Yeah, we’re like …

Craig: [03:57] “Aren’t you driving?”

Travis: [03:59] … “Where are they going?” So now we were complaining about the plane before. We have a plane, but now we have no pilots.

Craig: [04:03] Great. Sorry. Careful what you ask for.

Travis: [04:09] So they make some calls, and, obviously, at 2:30 in the morning, there’s not a terrible large selection of pilots.

Craig: [04:14] … of additional flight crew to pick from.

Travis: [04:16] That’s right. They have a standby, probably, but …

Craig: [04:17] Yeah.

Travis: [04:18] But, I believe, those people were the standby from Boston, so … So then the letters go across the board, “Canceled.” Canceled.

Craig: [04:29] Oh.

Travis: [04:29] Wait for, like, 12 hours and cancel. At this point, I give up hope. I was totally fine with before. I was like, “Yes. Bring on the challenge,” like, “This is Level 2 ADAPT,” like, “Hit me with tiredness. Hit me with fatigue. Go into the fire and battle.”

Craig: [04:44] Right, ’cause people are wondering, “Why is Craig starting with a story about an airport?” Right …

Travis: [04:47] Yes.

Craig: [04:47] … and I’m like, “No, this matters, ’cause you’re gonna get a lesson about Travis.”

Travis: [04:50] So Level 2 ADAPT, which … Previously, we should know that I’m a stay-at-home dad with my three kids, and then I teach classes in the evening. I get to see my wife for about an hour each day. When I come home, she’s sleeping.

Craig: [05:03] Right. Tag-team, right?

Travis: [05:03] Yeah. When I come home, she’s sleeping, the kids are sleeping, and when I get up, she’s already gone. So in order for me to get in morning training, which I realized I needed, because everything I have done is evening and late night, I need to be prepared to see what my body is like early in the morning. So I was getting up before she would go to work to go do my 5K, to go do a bunch of the physical requirements.

Craig: [05:25] Right. Sneak out of the house quick.

Travis: [05:26] So, most of the time, I’m going to bed midnight, whatever, once I get, actually, my work done. So, for me, now five hours, and then by the time I get back from doing my physical, I’m not going to go back to sleep. Then my kids wake up, and I have now begun my day …

Craig: [05:41] Right.

Travis: [05:41] … and I’m on very limited sleep. So it wasn’t too …

Craig: [05:45] It was like a regular day, right?

Travis: [05:46] It wasn’t too bad.

Craig: [05:48] Just more indoors than usual, right?

Travis: [05:50] Yeah. So the concierge lady, poor lady, she gets then, like, mobbed by people. “You need to call somebody.” Then we’re all sitting there, like, “She can’t do anything.”

Craig: [05:59] Right.

Travis: [06:00] ” Leave her alone. It’s a storm.”

Craig: [06:01] She wants to go home, too. Right.

Travis: [06:02] Yes. So I get put on the 9:00 flight, which is not good, ’cause 9:00 my time …

Craig: [06:08] Right.

Travis: [06:09] … is 10:00 Boston.

Craig: [06:10] Right.

Travis: [06:10] So I’m already now an hour late, and I haven’t even left. Now I’m missing the first half of the day.

Travis: [06:16] I just go up to her. I just get real close, and I say, “Is there a list, like for the 6:00 AM? I know it’s full, but is there like a standby list?”

Craig: [06:25] Yeah.

Travis: [06:25] Then she’s like, “Hold on a second.

Craig: [06:27] “Let me check.”

Travis: [06:29] She didn’t wanna alert other people …

Craig: [06:31] Right.

Travis: [06:32] … and be mobbed again. She was like, “I put you on the front of the list. It’s not guaranteed.” She slides me over a little standing-by boarding pass.

Craig: [06:39] Travis plays the blue eyes card, right?

Travis: [06:45] So I’m looking at the different flights, ’cause six months of my past training has led up to this.

Craig: [06:52] Yeah, he’s focused on this one event.

Travis: [06:53] I do not want to miss this, in any sense, if it’s a little bit or completely, the first day. I mean, it’d be tremendous, and to not have people then doing it with you, now you’re just doing it individually with a coach, entirely different feeling, entirely different mentality. It’s not … Like I said, I wanted to go into battle.

Craig: [07:09] Yeah, there’s an esprit de corps.

Travis: [07:09] Yes.

Craig: [07:09] There’s a team aspect to any sort of certification, and you kind of miss that. Obviously, you miss it if you’re not there, but you … In your heart, you miss that, ’cause you draw strength from those other people. Just like in a community or in your family, you draw strength from the other people with you. So 6:00 AM flight, short list.

Travis: [07:31] Yeah, so I look at the other flights, and there’s another 6:00 AM flight on a different airline, 170 bucks, guaranteed, and it’s going out. Well, as guaranteed as any flight.

Craig: [07:42] There is a caveat there.

Travis: [07:44] So I call my wife, and I just say, “I can either get on this flight or kind of bank that I’m going to be on this.”

Craig: [07:50] Yeah.

Travis: [07:51] So I go up to the concierge lady, and, once again, I get real close. I kind of look at her. I was like, “In your experienced and professional opinion, how likely is it that I’m going to get on the 6:00 AM?”

Travis: [08:01] She’s like, “I can’t guarantee it.” Then she just kind of nods and looks me in the eyes.

Craig: [08:06] There’s often one seat that slips in.

Travis: [08:10] So I was like, “All right. All right.” So I just trusted her.

Craig: [08:13] Yeah, I’m not gonna hold you to it. I understand.

Travis: [08:14] Yeah, got on the 6:00 AM and got out. I was only an hour late. Rubbed my quads a little bit.

Craig: [08:21] Then off we go.

Travis: [08:22] Dan Edwards looks at me and says, “Are you going to be able to do this?” I was like …

Craig: [08:25] “We’re gonna find out.” Right?

Travis: [08:26] Yeah, right. So everybody’s running the 5K, and I don’t know. For me, I’ve talked about it with some other people, but, for me, to not be there at the beginning, it’s such a core value of what I teach. It’s such a core value of what I hold that not starting together and having them run into battle and then me being at the tent, like, “Who didn’t wake me up? Wait, guys. I’ve been training, too” … It just feels so wrong to then jump in at the second exercise.

Travis: [08:57] So that part, I think more than the fatigue or anything else, I really didn’t like going into it that way, coming into the second exercise fresh …

Craig: [09:06] Fresh.

Travis: [09:07] … where everybody else is …

Craig: [09:07] Right.

Is There Anything Else You’d Like to Share with Us?

Craig: [28:53] Is there anything else that you’d like to share with us?

Travis: [28:57] Yeah, if … A message that no matter what your faith is or if it exists or what your beliefs are, I think something that can be universal is a heart of thankfulness. Yes, it’s resounding and very important in the Christian faith, but changing your heart to just appreciate everything, everything, because it’s shaping you. It’s an opportunity.

Travis: [29:33] I had a terrible college experience. I had a lot of what I called first and last semester college professors, because I was early childhood. So a lot of second-, third-grade teachers heard from a colleague that you can make really good money teaching night classes, I’m assuming. So then you come and you’re like, “You are not a college professor. You are probably a fantastic grade school teacher. You have no idea how to talk to adults.”

Craig: [30:03] So bending over with their hands on their knees, “Now, this is what we’re gonna learn.”

Travis: [30:06] Yeah, right. So I was … I went to a private college, and I was paying a lot to be there, to have that experience. After the first, second one, where I could’ve been upset about it, I just realized that there’s something I can gain from this. In the most terrible circumstance, there’s something that I can use to help me improve.

Travis: [30:35] I think, at the heart, at the core of a heart of thankfulness, is that ability to see what’s shaping you and what’s improving you. I just … I don’t know. The people that I meet and I encounter, I try to share that, that idea that that’s going to provide you with perseverance and patience and positivity. Like I said, whether it’s a Christian faith or not, it’s just … It’s important to do that, to be the giver, not the taker, to say, “Thank you so much for this” instead of “You can do this better,” taking away from it.

Craig: [31:17] So that strikes me as a sort of ability to choose your perspective on what’s going on. Where did you get that skill from? Can you take me back to a time when Travis just didn’t have that perspective? How did you get from there to where you are now?

Travis: [31:36] So many uncustomary things have happened to me. I taught in public school for three years. Through prayer, I asked God for advice on the direction that I should go, and I thought I heard what was a clear, “Leave your hourly rate. Leave your job security. Leave your guaranteed insurance. Go do this parkour. This is the path that I want for you.” I thought that was clear to me.

Travis: [32:12] I broke my leg a week before summer ended in a kickball game. I slipped in the grass. Students vs. staff kickball game. I broke my leg at school, right before parkour. Summer, there’s a big bang of classes and everything …

Craig: [32:29] Right.

Travis: [32:29] … that this was about to begin. I didn’t get it, because, like I said, not that I heard God’s voice, but I was just trying to listen to the different ways that He can communicate with you and said, “This is the path.”

Travis: [32:43] I said, “Why? Why would you” …

Craig: [32:45] “Break my leg right” …

Travis: [32:46] … “tell me to do something and then take away my ability to do that?” With how bad the break was, I couldn’t do anything. I couldn’t move. I just sat on a couch, and I had nothing to do but think. What I learned is that He needed to me how to ask others for help.

Travis: [33:06] So one of the huge personal drawbacks of going … Before choosing to follow Christ and now was my arrogance, that I can just always do it, that I don’t need your help, and like I am great and it’s me. It was still lingering, that idea, and He took away my ability to walk.

Travis: [33:28] For everything, I needed help – for everything. I couldn’t stand up. The swelling was too much, and it would be too painful. I had to crawl around. I couldn’t really bathe. I couldn’t really get myself food – like, “That’s the counter. I have to stand up,” and it was too painful.

Travis: [33:42] I saw, then, once I learned how to do my first jump again, which was a whole ‘nother experience and wonderful. Wonderful to reset your training from the ground. I couldn’t run, I couldn’t jump, and I did my first rail precision, like five years after I had already done my first rail precision.

Craig: [34:00] Right. Yep.

Travis: [34:01] It was so neat to go through the emotions again.

Craig: [34:04] Yeah, when do you ever get to have a second first?

Travis: [34:04] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw, then, in the next few years how I needed to depend on others and how I would not have been successful if I hadn’t been taught that lesson through breaking my leg.

Travis: [34:19] So I’ve had to learn lessons like that in life in really difficult ways, but understanding that it’s a lesson and not just this huge wall that’s in front of me that I just have to wait until it passes. It’s my method of being taught. I mean, oftentimes, we refer to God as your Heavenly Father, and I see it more so in less of that term and more so as like my Father who has raised me and knows me best and does the things that I hate. “You have to be home at 10:00.”

Travis: [34:52] “Why? Why do I have to be home at 10:00?”, not seeing that, all of the terrible things that can happen after 10:00 in your city or what it might be.

Craig: [34:57] Right, and you need to go to sleep so you can do tomorrow. Right?

Travis: [34:59] Correct. You don’t see those things, and you think, “Oh, what a terrible thing.”

Craig: [35:05] Authoritarian. Right.

Travis: [35:05] Right, right, right. Then you get a little bit older and you realize, “Wow. That was a great decision for me that I couldn’t make for myself.” So that heart of thankfulness is through those really difficult experiences that I’ve seen now, years passed, why I needed that. When you’re in it …

Travis: [35:25] I use this for people in parkour, like, “Okay, we have one hour. Hey, guys, we’re just going to start at this end, and we’re just gonna end at the other end, that other end that we can’t see. Yeah, we’re just gonna crawl. We have a 50-minute time limit.”

Travis: [35:42] “What?”

Travis: [35:46] But the lesson taught is, like, “During it, you’re going to want to stop, and you’re not going to remember that there’s an end. You’re to going to remember that there is a finish. You’re going to be so caught up within the movement itself and say it’s never-ending. You have these infinitive talks to yourself, like it hurts so much and there’s no end to it.”

Travis: [36:07] “To remember that there’s an end result, there’s a goal, there’s a place that you are going, and at the end, you are going to be so happy that you’ve gone through this. During it, you’re going to hate it.”

Travis: [36:18] People get caught up in that, through life and through certain exercises and whatnot, that they just think that this is what it’s all about and don’t really see where this is leading them – to be present in what you’re doing, but understand where you’re going.

What is Movers Mindset?

When we renamed this project “Movers Mindset” in early 2018, it was after a long, honest look at our first two years of work. We realized a critical problem was that we didn’t understand fully what we were doing. What is this project about? What sorts of questions are we exploring? If we were confused, it’s no wonder no one else understood.

So, what is Movers Mindset?

Movers Mindset is a project that examines the nature and philosophy of movement. We deliberately avoid the flashy, superficial aspects of movement, focusing instead on the journey of self-improvement and its underlying motivations. We explore themes like independence, self-direction, and human excellence through podcasts, website content, and a community of like-minded people we call the Movers Mindset Insiders.

Interested? Join us!

016 – Interview with Sebastien Foucan (part 1 of 3)

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Episode Summary

Sebastien Foucan joins Craig for the first of a three part interview. Sebastien is best described – in his own words – as an explorer. Craig and Sebastien talk about what he means by explorer and how his journey of exploration has evolved over the years.


Your Mind, Your Body, and Your Environment

Sebastien: But of course when you starting to train your body-

Craig: Assuming there’s a calling to also work on the mind.

Sebastien: Yes, work with the mind and then after you work on your mind, and later on I started to realize my mind wasn’t strong. In my genes I’ve got some qualities based on say genes [00:12:00] physically, but the mind couldn’t keep up. That’s why I’ve got vertigo. Then there was the beauty with Parkour is got this analogy with obstacles and challenge yourself and everything and make decision and everything. But that’s where I can see I’ve got a lack of.

Craig: Through that you can see that you have a weakness, you have a hole.

Sebastien: I’ve got weakness. I keep practice parkour. Parkour bring me that. I’m getting better by practicing Parkour, but Parkour also give you a clear, [00:12:30] different view on the environment. The way how you see the environment, where you were children, when you do Parkour again, is come back again. Something like sometime I say it’s not about learning, it’s about relearning.

Craig: Relearning, rediscovering somewhere along the way I lost the ability to move and play, so I’m not really learning to move, I used to know how to do that.

Sebastien: That’s [00:13:00] why come up now it’s clearer because I worked very, very hard on knowing what I’m doing. I know there were the three kind of triangle between the mind, the body and the environment. That’s the key in order to become that butterfly. Some people, good body. The mind not the environment not good. Some people has got the body and the environment, but the mind is not good and so on and so on. But each time you see someone, I would say it’s a well balanced person, the mind is good, the [00:13:30] body is good, and the environment is good. It’s not only you, it’s link with how your environment is set up and also your surrounding. I always say that there is three major obstacles who prevent you to become the butterfly is I say it’s the environment, your surrounding and yourself. The entire journey, your entire journey is to find out how can I get to-

Craig: My full potential.

Sebastien: … to my full potential. Because as we know, when you practice Parkour, [00:14:00] everything around is been set up by other people. This is culturally or anything or an architect decided it’s supposed to be made by this.

Craig: It’s there for some reason and it isn’t for Parkour.

Sebastien: That would say a bench is made to sit down, so just sit down. But in another level, say who decided that and do I have the right to do this or this? Some people will say, come down from these trees and you say, no, but I want to climb the trees. It’s the boundaries. Now is just open you to the boundary. We’re living [00:14:30] in a world full of boundaries and it’s like we try to find out where is the true boundaries and it doesn’t mean we need no boundaries. It’s like yin yang. Then you’ll see there is the environment, physical boundaries.

This wall is this high, this is the fence. I cannot go over and everything, but also you’ve got the people around you. People with different mindset [00:15:00] between someone who’s going to encourage you to climb tree versus the other person who going to say no, you come down. Do not do that. We can see this every single time and is based on your family.

Craig: Your local community and the society that you’re in.

Waiving the Jump

Craig: Do you have a French phrase for waiving the jump? What do you call that internally?

Sebastien: No, I use it in English.

Craig: You use it in English.

Sebastien: Because it’s universal. As I say with the word, because I come up with the word, so I believe someone is [00:20:00] gonna come up with a French word.

Craig: Can you unpack it a little bit more? Like can I use this technique if I’m only training once a week or like how?

Sebastien: Basically everything is linked with my concept because when I started with everyone, it was pretty organic. Everyone’s got their method and they go outside they practice. For me, I need to find like Bruce Lee say I need to find the cause of my ignorance, so I need to write it down everything. That’s why I started to do the classification within Parkour. Try to really understand what am [00:20:30] I doing and what is my problem. I come up with a lot of concept as you can see. I say talk about the mind, the body, the environment, the three major obstacles, the eight roots, which we need to master or to work on it in order to get to this idea of peace.

In my concept, I say follow the season, I’ve got a grade system, I’ve got [00:21:00] a maturity level. You see, so I keep on working on that and the waving technique is one of them because when I start to getting opportunities and I had some obstacle, some challenge to face, like people will say, okay, I want you to go in this building and doing this jump.

Craig: Jump for some consequence or-

Sebastien: Me say, “Oh my God. How am I going to do that?

015 – Interview with Dylan Johanson

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Episode Summary

Dylan Johanson is the owner and founder of Innate Movement Parkour in Kingston, New York. A practitioner for many years, Dylan talks about his origin story and the challenges surrounding building and then re-building his gym. Then he shares some thoughts on what advice he would give his younger self.


Dylan’s origin story

Craig: So let’s just start by putting you into the spatial picture a little bit. How did you get into parkour and how do you end up being a person who started Innate Movement and just like …

Dylan: Totally. Should I kinda do the whole origin story and then –

Craig: You can. I kind of avoid the origin stories, [00:01:00] but there are parts of your origin story that are gonna come in that are important, so whatever level you wanna bring in.

Dylan: Well I guess I first found parkour just by seeing one of the David Belle French news videos, and it just immediately resonated with me. I was like, I have to go do that. You know, I was one of those kind of monkey kids like many of us who were climbing on things always. As soon as I saw it, I was like, yes, I must go. But at the time I was very [00:01:30] kind of like, hippied out. I just got out of college and I didn’t want to train on concrete. I just wanted to train in the woods and feel connected to nature.

Craig: Ooh, that’s actually an interesting parallel to how they really started, right?

Dylan: Right, right, exactly. Like the Sarcelles situation, right? But so you know, I went out and I trained a little bit. This was in like, 2006 or 2007 for a few months. Then I actually broke my fibula and destroyed my ankle in like an old man flag football league.

Craig: Ow, I’m laughing ’cause they’re using the word old man.

Dylan: [00:02:00] Right, well, that’s how I thought about it at the time, and yeah, with that experience, I was like, oh, maybe I’m too old and fragile to do this. I can’t train parkour, parkour isn’t for me, which is just hilarious…

Craig: Right, you were over the hill and your life ended at what age?

Dylan: Exactly, I was like 23, which is hilarious now, you know, I’m almost …

Craig: And how much, you would give a leg to be 23 again?

Dylan: Exactly, yeah, as a person pushing 34, I was like, what are you talking about? I was like, you’re in the prime of your life. But so, at the time that’s how I thought about it so then I just let a lot of years go [00:02:30] by, and I really just kind of embraced the unhealthiness, and I sort of went for it just eating terrible things …

Craig: What’s the most comfortable sofa I can buy, right?

Dylan: Exactly, yeah, I was like this is all over, time to just … it was like hospice or something, it was time to just try to be, just make yourself comfortable and ride it out ’til the end, man.

So, a few years went by of that. At a certain point something flipped back on and I reprioritized becoming fit, and then around [00:03:00] 2013 parkour just came back across my field of view, just on the internet again, I imagine, and I was like, “You know what? No.” Like, “I can do that. I’m in the fittest, I’m in the best shape of my life.” I was like 29-

Craig: Rage quit the potato chips, right?

Dylan: Right, I was like, “I’m out of here.” Yes, I have to go do that immediately. So, the next day I just drove myself to uptown Kingston, and just started touching walls and stuff, just going into alleyways [00:03:30] and climbing on them, and just figuring it out. I didn’t know what I was doing, I didn’t really know how to start. Some of those early sessions were literally like, I would just park my car, stash my keys in the wheel well, and not have anything, and just run in a direction across the city, and just go.

Craig: Just go.

Dylan: Across everything that came, I pass, like jumping through people’s yards, and hopping over people’s dogs, and things I would never do now. Like, come on guys, you’re being very disrespectful.

Craig: Right. But Kingston is neat because the city [00:04:00] is just built up enough that it has a Main Street, and it has a bunch of shops, but then on Sunday it turns into a ghost town-

Dylan: Right.

Craig: So it’s like nobody’s looking, you can run through the backyard.

Dylan: Exactly, exactly. And that’s how, the early parts of my training, that’s really what it was. During the week, I was working in an office, kind of Monday through Friday, nine to five thing, and so I would be doing push-ups and physical conditioning and hopping around in my kitchen and stuff during the week, and thinking about parkour, and reading about parkour, and being [00:04:30] obsessed with it. But the main training days would really be, yeah, those Sunday, just long sessions. Back in the day, every single time I trained was like the epic four, five hour long sessions. Like I said, that particular area of Kingston because of like some, you know, strange, one of those old-

Craig: Ordinance, city ordinance or something.

Dylan: City ordinances, exactly, where it’s like, “Oh, you’re supposed to be closed on Sunday.” So there was just no one there, and it was just this little piece of parkour paradise. It was also one of those like, security through obscurity things. No one knew what I was doing, and no one else trained, and I was the only one doing it, so-

Craig: Go in a different line every week, nobody knows [00:05:05]

Dylan: Exactly, yeah. It was just like ninja status, just in some alleyway, and no one would see me, no one knew it was happening. So, that’s obviously all different now. We need to be having more of a public face when we’re out training in groups and stuff, but back in those days it was just [00:05:20] the wild west, you had lone wolf status. But yeah, so I was doing that for a while. But yeah, I was getting a little banged up, getting sort of hurt, cause I didn’t know how to train, I didn’t know what to do, I didn’t know any of the techniques, really-

Craig: No recovery, right.

Dylan: Right. I reached out for resources, like community or coaching, in the area, and just came up totally blank. There just wasn’t anyone to train with, or who knew more than me to teach me stuff, and that’s when, eventually, just through Google searching and stuff, I found PK Gen (Parkour Generations), and through that, learned that there was an A.D.A.P.T. level one cert going on [00:06:00] in Pennsylvania, in your neck of the woods, that June. I signed up, just mainly, at the time, just to meet other people who trained. I just didn’t…

So, it was basically almost like, partly starting on the coaching journey, but also partly going to an intro parkour class. I had just, I had never met anyone who trained. So, went to that, learned a lot, and then started … At that point, I had just been [00:06:30] training with some friends, and trying to get it going, and just share with more and more people, so I just have buddies to train with.

014 – Interview with Jesse Danger

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Episode Summary

Jesse Danger takes time out from teaching parkour to share thoughtful insights on topics such as systems thinking through game design, the role of novelty, and how to work with a group toward a single focus while still honoring the individual. Along the way we also discuss life lessons learned through playing chess.