Transcript for “Softness – with Josh Nierer”

Episode, Softness – with Josh Nierer

Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome to the movers mindset podcast where I talk with movement enthusiasts to find out who they are what they do and why they do it. My guest today is Josh Nierer welcome Josh how are you?

I’m pretty good. How are you.

As I say to everybody I’m excited but doubly excited because I was like how have I never talked to Josh with microphones before but we’ll circle back to that before we get started the last few episodes I’ve been mentioning the move nyc event. What’s that you’ve already got your tickets. Oh okay, you can skip ahead. Otherwise. On the weekend that is may 27 through the twenty ninth Josh will be at the move and Nyc event in Manhattan move nyc was imagined into existence by the movement creative for information and tickets run to their website. The and click precisely on move n yc at the top. So there’s that

anyway back to Josh I was saying we’ve been like you know a couple of events together I I would kind of say we trained the same community but quite honestly you are one of the people who started the community where I fell into see what I did there fell into parkor. Um, so we’ve trained like 67 Sundays to Christmas and back and it’s been super fun to see like every coach has their own fingerprint. Um, but it’s super fun to see you get a chance to teach because um I don’t want to say you light up the room because that’s kind of dorky. But. But you have this fun way of of like really being honestly energetic about what you’re teaching and your session has I don’t want to give away too much. People need to go buy their tickets but your session has the word soft in the title softness plays into the title and I’ve but I was trying to jog my memory and i. Believe I’ve seen you do sessions on that I’m not sure that I’ve been in them which maybe I should but my none thought is when somebody has something that is less common like that I think was there something that you’ve seen in your past like did you see someone move with what you thought was softness or was there something like what is it about. Softness in movement that hooks your attention.

Yeah, so surprisingly I actually was never a very soft mover I actually pretty much was always a very power hungry very like how far can I jump how big of a movement can I do because that was always you know what caught the attention. But then what ended up happening is that I would look up and I think it was um oh what is his name min from Germany and I watched one of his videos and he was just such a beautiful mover doing everything so elegantly doing his flips doing his other tricks. But. You know his video audio was just him moving and it was just so quiet and I was just so fascinated by it and he actually had the opportunity to come to Pennsylvania and train with us and he ran a session and I just watched him move even more and that’s where I just like kept diving deeper into this idea of. Why is he able to do this movement so quietly because you know the way I think of it is softness is just how much force your body is taking and me being an engineer I love the idea of you know, calculating things and finding out how much force something takes how much can it take. What’s the biomechanics that we can follow and what we shouldn’t follow and of course of all those reasons I dove pretty deep into the idea of let’s actually do the numbers I broke out my calculator and wrote out like how heavy am I how far can I drop and how am I able to do these things without breaking my body every single day. And eventually I was able to say wow I was doing these movements actually slightly incorrect. Yeah I can do the movement but I’m not utilizing my body to its fullest extent yet and.

Are there like common I don’t want to say? Yeah, yeah, yeah, so give it to me in one words but are there common things that people do wrong like ah you know like my assumption would be oh if I want to. Be moving more quietly then I should just get stronger because then I’d be more comfortable when I’m moving like that’s actually literally literally a train of thought that Craig has Craig is not a quiet mover if you’ve never trained with me Josh has um, but are there other like really like that to me seems that’s probably wrong. Are there like things that we generally get wrong that we could at least look at.

Ah, yeah, so the main 3 that I’ve tried to simplify it down to and to be honest, you’re going to hear it from any parkor coach. The none one is repetition I mean you hear it all the time you got to practice your movement until it’s muscle memory. But the real reason why we want it to be muscle memory is because of something I actually dove pretty deep into which was ground reaction time. So it’s the way I like to describe it is the signal at which the our feet making contact with the ground sending up to our brain which happens at about none time it takes for you to blink so it’s point one five seconds and then for you to retranslate a message back to your feet to start or your muscles to start doing something the problem with that is is if your brain’s still trying to figure out what to do that signal is delayed. And because of all that you know there’s this like jolt almost that ends up happening and that jolt is what causes that initial slap that slap of the shoes or the feet hitting the ground in some way shape or form and because of all that you know you’re making a lot more noise than you ever need to because your body is not reacting the way.


You need to train it to and it doesn’t take big big drops to do that. Just hundreds of small drops or jumps or any type of other movement even just placing your hand down for a step vault or a safety vault depending on where you’re in the world. You are just ah, a few hundreds of just reaching your hand out. And knowing where it is to then be able to get it to be that muscle memory so that’s usually the first one is repetition. The None one. Well it is it is strength it it is you do need to be strong enough to be able to do certain things. So. This also then came down to the numbers. So this is where I sat down and I was like okay how much force does a human being take when they drop so for fun I actually wrote out a couple equations here for anyone who has paper and pen if not, it’s okay so let’s say if someone’s taking a two meter drop none give or take. And they weigh about £185 that amount of force is equivalent to twelve hundred foot pounds of force so and for those who go by different unit that’s sixteen hundred Joules that’s a lot of force I don’t know if anyone’s going to the gym and squatting. £1200 but somehow we’re able to do this and it goes somewhere and the first one is the classic. You just bend your legs like this is the situation if you just locked your knees out as all of us hopefully cringed a little bit that’s pretty much what happened.

Dissipate that it goes somewhere.


Everybody knows you drop two meters and you lock your knees lock your body something. Bad’s gonna happen. Something’s gonna break. So the second part of it is of course you gotta go through the range of motion but the secret is distance or what I like to tell my students is. We’re gonna start time traveling now because if we can take force. And divide it out through distance or time that ability for us to take that force divides it out so far that it just dissipates it down to something that’s very manageable for all of us so classic movement. We all do is roll. Okay now I don’t know about you guys. But you don’t roll. Learn a role in the none day you don’t it takes hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of roles for it to be perfect. So comes back to that of course repetition part of it but does anybody like really look at why or what direction we roll? Do. We just roll down our spine. No, we already know that doesn’t work. Ah yeah, at none few and then at the same time. Why does a hot dog role not work. The classics sideways. The main reason is the roll from hand down elbow shoulder across to the ah other hip and.

Maybe the None time I did that once.


Off to the opposite foot. The reason that works is because it literally is the longest distance. Our body can have and because of that distance you’ve now dissipated all of that £1200 of force over. Let’s call this person like None 10 n six feet tall whatever it might be. Over like seven feet and now you’ve been able to dissipate this down to just maybe a hundred or two hundred pounds of force that they’re really taking and it’s it’s amazing. So it’s the same way that you can walk on hot coals and not burn your feet. You’re you’re taking that that heat let’s call it just energy and you’re. Dissipating it as you’re walking and you’re that small part of your foot touching that hot hole only a split second which is why we’re able to roll because that split second of force doesn’t really ever happen or yeah, so.

Manageable in each muscle.

Ah, so yeah, exactly we don’t need just our quads to be able to take the £1200 of force but we can have the rest of our body help dissipate all of it. so so yeah there is of course that strength element. There’s that repetition part of it. But yeah I mean I guess there’s those are the big 2 to be honest.

Um, but it it points to mindfulness like it’s None thing to say I’m gonna do a bunch of squats and then it’s another thing to say I’m going to do squats I’m gonna pay attention to how much strength I have well you know when you none begin squatting? Yeah okay, that’s fine. But how much strength do I have down at the very bottom like can I make the squat go really slow or do as mine do at the very bottom I kind of collapse into the hunter’s squat onto the balls of my feet and sort of drop into resting on on my glutes laying on the back of my ankles and. That’s an opportunity to be like whoa. That’s drastically weaker than like my mid-range power and I like how you point out about ground reaction time because it it makes you um I’m having flashbacks to having once tried six feet drop on the concrete and it was like that’s high enough that I had time to go.

Oof yeah.

Mistakes were made you know and like if I’m still waiting for the ground. You know it’s a long way to go? Um, but your your point about the ground reaction and the time to respond is if you’re prepared for the first you know like landing feelers to just touch the ground that might give you you know four more inches like know that I got my. My Quads engaged. Um, so I Really think you’re onto something about obviously about you know that can that thinking about that softness can lead you to being mindful of reps of repetition. So cool.

yeah yeah I mean I yeah know I honestly what I’ll do is I’ll also train with my eyes closed so that it’s yeah I’m taking those drops. You know we’re talking like a foot or maybe two feet at tops so that my brain.

Let me sure I’m not cutting you off.

Literally looking for that as opposed to relying on other senses. So if I’m relying on my site to tell me when I’m about to take an impact the moment I go outside when it’s dark out to train and I don’t have that to be 100% now my landings don’t exist anymore. So.


I’ll rely on these other senses to hopefully you know pick up where I take away one of them and and to be honest, you know you hear about it all time those people who take away one sense. All the others pick up a little bit more and that is very true with my training I’ll train eyes closed as much as possible and that. Helps me fix a lot of my and my hard landings issues and of course my fluidity also makes me not be able to see myself so I don’t have to see how rigid I am with my movement.

I hate every once in while I shoot a video like oh I’m trying to do a kong take a video i’s like oh my god delete that and delete it out of the deleted pile. You know what? not even wait thirty days that has to go now I’m wondering about um without starting a holy war about shoes.

Yeah, yeah.

I’m just wondering what your thoughts are on. Um I Personally don’t like a lot of padding and shoes. So the shoes that I love most which they no longer make I pull the insoles out and just run around on a couple millimeters of rubber but I do actually carry the insoles with me when I’m traveling or I know it be off for days.

Yeah, yeah.

And I’ll slip them in because I’m like okay I need to I need to bring some padding in here because this is gonna be a long day. But when I go running normally which isn’t often I take them out. Um, and I’m just wondering if you have any other thoughts on like I mean I don’t want to like preach to the choir but you know marshmallow shoes are bad. And I’m just thinking because your point about ground reaction plays right into that like if you try some small drops barefoot You get a whole new world. Yeah, about that when do you actually feel the ground because you can actually feel it. Um.

Yeah, yeah, and I and I think you’ve actually way back in the old days taken a few of my you know shoeless classes where we go barefoot We we run we? Yeah yeah.

Um, probably the None place I ever did anything barefoot in park horror was some crazy thing with you on sunday.

So and that was during a time period where I spent I think it was Austin and I we both spent as much time during that summertime barefoot training and pushing ourselves to you know how much can we actually train getting back to a sense of normality without shoes that we would if we did have shoes.


But the with shoes conversation is to be honest, it’s so so polarized you either really love the thicker shoes or you don’t and I personally have always stuck to the thinner shoes only because I actually started with thicker shoes when i. None started training and I noticed myself twisting my ankles getting a lot of twisted ankles whether it’s ah we call them quakeways or whatever it might be just like oh that really hurt now I got to sit out for ten fifteen twenty minutes just so I can get back. Whatever strength I have or maybe I have to call it today so that extra height was ah.


Disadvantage for me in the earlier parts now. We can also argue that my my muscles were not strong enough at the time in my ankles but at the same time you know all that extra lift took away my ability to feel and then when I was landing I lost my mechanical alignment of just. Now my ankles twist None way or another and it’s game over so but I would definitely say I like the softer I’m sorry I like the thinner shoes but I still like to have a soft rubber which means I wear through them a little quicker. Yeah.

Yeah, that’s that’s a good point I’m like I like barefoot I try to be barefoot as much as I can just during the day normally. But yeah, when it gets rainy metal railings get slippery and cold and and like it you know I don’t um, horrible visual I don’t do park or naked because I like not to get sunburner I like to be warm or so there’s.


You know I’m definitely a tool user like all people are so I definitely believe you know the right shoe for the for the job I think it’s just a question of being intentional about what you choose like you know I like this rubber it sticks really nice sticks better than my feet would stick the thing So I’m going to go with that. Yeah cool.

Yeah, yeah, but ah I know there’s a Geho from Korea Amazing! Mover Super duper soft with his jumps and he does massive jumps all the Time. He’s an individual that I would probably put in the category Of. Ah, he has such quiet movement with such thick souls not because of the souls of course but he he doesn’t then have to react as much when he does those gigantic Jumps I’m not specific I don’t know exactly what shoes he wears but he has such amazing fluidity and.

It clearly works right.

Power. Yes, So he he’s the opposite side of the spectrum where he has a little bit of a thicker so type of shoe and I Honestly think if I was doing a lot more massive jumps on a regular basis I Probably also would you know pick much larger shoes but you know he he does it. He makes it look Amazing. He makes it very smooth. He Also I’m sure has a great training routine that you know he’s built up to over Time. So but.

Yeah, I’m kind of thinking like wearing a helmet generally would increase my safety but it’s kind of really important on high-speed drag racing you know because like the chances of needing the helmet go up so it it sounds to me like it’s um, if 1 is intentional about yes I’m going to be doing. You know these things I’m going to wear.


You know these protect these particular shoes or I’m doing this activity I’m wearing a helmet I’m doing that activity I’m going to put gloves on or whatever. So yeah, oh what do you want to talk about in the last few minutes you want to talk about engineering you want talk about parkor obstacles I probably could get about an hour out of you about building parkor obstacles.

Um, ah oh yeah, but.

Um, maybe the few let’s see. Um, what is it about a lot of people build park or obstacles. But you’re like definitely in the crime Del crime you’re like in the top of the echelon. Um, but what is it? What? what itch does that scratch for you creating obstacles.

Yeah, yeah, so it comes from 2 different areas my grandfather he worked at Bethlem Steele a local um you know business that was back in the you know early None s and seventy s that shut down. Amazing for their carpentry work and he taught me everything about carpentry and I I value those lessons so so much so I’m always constantly innovating and creating and building stuff with my hands I can’t stop even if I tried and with that. You know the engineering degree allowed me to now you know use softwares and stuff and bring my imagination to a canvas. You know some people paint some people ah draw some people write I can’t do any of those things but I do love designing and I actually. Just started ah this past two weeks a new engineering role I’m a lead engineer at a local company now who does amazing things where we create technology for the department of defense and they just literally handed me the reins and they’re like you know what? just. Design run with it. You know, just meet their needs and we’re happy with it. So I literally am just always loving the idea of how can I solve a problem but in my own way and thinking outside of the box. So ah, yeah, yeah, so um.

No pun intended ha.

So whenever I’ve actually designed a lot of parkor gyms throughout the country up to this point people have the option through Parkour Generations Americas to reach out and say hey I want a design you know I’m handing you guys the reins here’s my space here’s an empty canvas build me something. And I always tell people or I always ask them I should say right from the beginning give me a scale of 1 to 10? How complicated you want it to be because I can give you a one which is like here’s a box and a box and a box and you know any dad with a hammer any dad with a hammer can build it and then I say there’s a None

Zen. Yeah.

Which is you’ve given me the reins and I will tell you how to build it I will give you the blueprints but you know what you know it’s going to take a really skilled you know, ah carpenter to be able to really put this together. So no, one’s taken a 10 yet the highest I’ve gotten is a 4 ah, so one day if someone is listening and they really want a ah parkcor gym. You know out of None I’m always happy to go that route. Yeah but but at this point it’s just I love the idea of just building creating and you know.

Reach out cool.

I double reinforce I overengineer something so that it never has just one purpose if you ever come to our gym every object in that place has been flipped around twice 3 times and has been used 8 different ways because whenever I build it. It is structurally strong in every single way.

Clearly clearly scratching a creative itch for you write up your engineering alley and also creative all right Josh well I’m just watching our time take away I I think I will just say and of course the final question 3 words to describe your practice.

So Every stay safe. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, um I mean whether it comes to ah when I build something or specifically the the session I’m gonna be running at and Nyc is ah longevity repetition and purpose.

Nice I’m scribbling sweet Josh it was a pleasure to finally get a chance to sit down and talk I was almost thinking you know we could ah well it’s easier to do it over the internet I’m like you’re not that far away all right cool.

Yeah, so.

Um, it was a pleasure to talk to you I’m looking forward to getting a chance to jam a little bit. There’s a couple of coaches sessions that we get to play in and I’ll see you in a couple weeks and I hope everybody else catch a chance to catch your session as well. Thanks Josh.

Yep, Thank you.

Transcript for “Balance – with Sam Sweet and Ben Klein”

Episode: Balance – with Sam Sweet and Ben Klein

Hello I’m Craig Constantine welcome to the Movers Mindset podcast where I talk with movement enthusiasts to find out who they are what they do and why they do it. My guests today are Sam Sweet and Ben Klein welcome Sam welcome Ben how are you guys today?

Ben and Sam
Hey glad to be here good. How’s it going.

It’s going very well I mean it’s an excellent question anytime that I get to talk to people I get excited. So anybody who ever asked me of course I’m having a good time. Um I want to start normally people who’ve listened to the show like we’re doing something a little different with some of these episodes and I want to start by mentioning that in a couple weeks. No fast forwarding. On the weekend that is may none through the none just over two weeks from today Sam and Ben will be at the move Nyc event in Manhattan teaching sessions involving imagine this balancing and acrobatics if you didn’t see that coming. You don’t know who Sam And Ben are that event is run by the movement creative for information and tickets to the event. Please go to their website. It is the movementcreative dot com and just click on move Nyc at the top. Anyway, that’s my spiel so Sam Ben I was super excited to talk to you guys because I love meeting people who like to share their passion with others. So. It’s None thing to talk to people who love to move love to play I get to do that a lot. But for you guys I’m curious about like. Please make the joke as a person this end up only no inversions. Um I’m always curious about people who get hooked or who get interested in balancing or even acrobatics like what their but their journey is so I’m wondering if there are things that you’ve seen people like are there say other. Gateway successes like when you see them do something that lights their passion and that like opens up that new world for them are their particular experiences that I don’t wanna say trigger people that’s the wrong context but are there things that set them off on the right road.

Ben and Sam
Um, yeah, no, it’s a very ah it’s a very interesting thing that we actually talk about a lot in acrobatics. Um, that basically what? what’s nice about partner acrobatics is that. There’s a lot of things. There’s a lot of different ways to get upside down and there’s a lot of different ah ways to assist people when you have a None person working with you so people I think the thing that most people are are ah surprised about is how quickly they can start doing things that seem. Ah. Seem advanced right? exactly where they can ah be going upside down you know within their none class or 2 and ah doing some some really fun balances sometimes that comes back because there’s also a you know, ah partner acroback is a very. Deep discipline where you can get into very very advanced poses that take a long time so sometimes people are are I’d say it’s got ah a very friendly start to the learning curve and ah and then. Ah, it gets harder from there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically yeah, but it’s very nice so people can come and come and play and get hooked and then the hard work comes later sometimes it.

Um, but I imagine that’s a good thing.

Um, is there. Um, how do I How do I like I’m never at a loss for things to ask I’m always at a loss for how to pack it down into a small number of words so people don’t think I’m insane I am insane but are there are there activities. So like if I say I want to go run I don’t want to make. Running sound like it’s easy but generally speaking like we run right? and like getting good at standing. Okay I mean this standing is really complex but we do this so Well. What I want to know is is it I’m going to set Mayor quoting is it as simple as just doing.

Ben and Sam
Especially when you do it on in person.

The balancing and the acrobatics over and over and over I mean yes, please do it with a teacher but is it as simple as putting in the time in the reps or are there really things about being inverted. For example, that are so fundamentally different from my normal.. Ah, lived experience that it’s like well okay, None you’re going to have to do this whole world of things that have nothing to do with Muscular strength see what I’m saying like if if somebody wanted to tell me how to like do yoga Tree Pose. That’s basically do more of the balancing than I do every day am I making sense.

Ben and Sam
Yeah I think it depends on what your goal is you know like if you’re just trying to get upside down and be balanced. That’s not very hard. But if you’re trying to do something more like something a little more dynamic or trying to throw something or.


Ben and Sam
Trying to you know, do something That’s not just standing or just upside down then then you have to there is more musculature. There is more um, things that you have to think of. But if your goal is to just get someone upside down or someone on their feet or just to like learn to have someone start to learn to be balanced. Um, you can just come as you are um, come as you are and see if you can not be scared to stand on someone. Yeah.

Most people pay.

Ben and Sam
There is definitely.. There is definitely ah, an interesting mental aspect to being upside down. Yeah, it’s on top of the strength right? because a lot of it is ah and not even upside down upside down is actually easy. What I think is harder for people is being in positions that are counterbalanced with me where you’re where you’re. Close to being upright or close to being upside down but you have to hold a little bit off from that because your body will naturally want to like come back to being straight right? like yeah exactly you’re naturally gonna want to correct out that that little bit of Unbalance. So for things where you have to be um, slightly off balanceance.

Correct, yeah correct right? Yeah I’m air quote again. Hi.

Ben and Sam
Then those can actually be some of the trickiest things but a lot of that is mental and a lot of that is just getting your bearings of of ah your orientation and and just your awareness in the air. Yeah, the mental game of acrobatics. Partner Acrobetics specifically is something that I struggle with because I um had a stronger like I started hand balancing before I started partner acrobetics and I had a stronger solo practice when I was Younger. So I’m very controlling. And um, which makes me a good base. Ah but it doesn’t quite make me the best I have to work harder to fly because flying is more is less control I feel. It’s more just like letting the the ground changes under you.

More like.

Literally if that leads right into I’m thinking oh this is I mean it seems like it would be like dance and I’m wondering does that mean sounds like what you’re saying is that one person has to sort of lead in the partnered balancing movements and the other person has to.

Ben and Sam
So it’s letting the base be the ground.

Follow or is it more of a literal balance where you’re working together and the sorry I’m like trying to load new terms in my head the ground has to learn to follow the flyer as much as the flyer is following the ground or like how does that how does the interplay of 2 people like play out.

Ben and Sam
Yeah, well acrobatics has gotten very wide. Um and it’s started to incorporate all sorts of different disciplines cheer tricks accrioga like like there’s ah, there’s so many different ways of of.


Ben and Sam
Moving with somebody else and lots of elements of dance and things like that. So. There’s really But yeah I mean that is the interpersonal is probably the hardest thing about doing acrobatics and it’s the most different thing from maybe some solo movement practices if you’re doing parkour or something like that. Um. And the answer is There’s lots of different ways. But yeah leading and following are both very important skills and sometimes ah sometimes the flyer may lead a particular skill sometimes the base may lead a particular skill sometimes None person might initiate a skill while another person is leading the balance or something like that right? So there’s. It gets. There’s as many different ways to do it as there are different skills to do right? So like there’s ah situations when either person might be leading ah depending on the trick and what you’re trying to accomplish and depending on your partnership. Yeah.

Um, yeah, does it is it.

Ben and Sam
Which is what makes it even more because even more complicated to dance. Okay, you’re going to lead I’m going to follow. It’s like okay in this trick I’m leading this part of it in this trick you’re going to. You know it’s like there’s there’s.

Is it better or worse if the 2 people have some sort of relationship like is it is it better if you bring a friend that you know and trust versus like bring your but I got to believe there’s ah, there’s some level and like I kind of suspect that you were going to say that right? because like.

Ben and Sam
Um, no, it’s so much here so much worse.

I’ve done enough things to know like there’s probably a level of familiarity and comfort and trust like if you have that that makes it easier like 2 random you know strangers you have to like build that quickly but then beyond that too much familiarity might be a problem.

Ben and Sam
Um, yeah I think no I think it’s it’s that’s it’s necessary and it’s like if you’re going to get good at. Doing acrobatics. You need to be Around. You’re going to be.. It’s like you know it’s like any other. It’s a pretty big partnership. It’s like having a band or something you’re going to Fight. You’re going to have intense discussions. You’re going to go back and forth about things. But. In order to work it out. That’s kind of sometimes what’s necessary right? So you try and do the best you can to to let like work in a nice way and not let things get personal and obviously if you have other relationships that complicates that too. But it’s going to be regardless of what your other relationship is if you’re doing. A lot of partner acrobatics if somebody are going to have a close relationship due to the acrobatics. Yeah.

The licensecening rhythm I mentioned at the top that you guys are going to be presenting and I know you’re doing 2 different sessions which I in my gross negligence forgot to write down the titles of your sessions. Um, but I’m thinking ah 1 of them is.

Ben and Sam
Yeah, well, we’re doing foot to hand and hand to hand so that’s ah, kind of one of the you know one of the most basic ah elements of what fundamental elements of of acrobatics. Yeah.

Hand to foot and.

Um, well definitely recognizable right? like this is people with like what they just imagined and and for the it just that’s the thing. So convince me why ys you don’t want to be under me Um, but like convince me that I like convince me that I should come like why should.

Ben and Sam
Yeah, he’s either standing in somebody’s hands or doing a handand in somebody’s hands. Yeah.

Craig show up at this session aside for the fact that I I think I’m actually teaching at the same time of one of them but keep going. Um so why should new people show up like what is it about it that you know is the thing that they’re going to get so excited about once they see it.

Ben and Sam
Um, yeah, um.

Ben and Sam
I Think it’s just a very interesting feeling that you’re not going to get from anywhere else and maybe you won’t like it. But maybe you will but ah but keep when we’re Starting. You’re only going to be you know, maybe a foot off the ground. So Even though it feels very. It may feel very scary and disorienting to be balanced but you know it’s not. So scary and it’s like I said it’s an experience. You’re not going to get anywhere else if you haven’t had somebody try and balance you Ah, It’s definitely a very humbling fun and interesting experience and fun. Yeah, especially.

Humbling. Is it good. That’s a good point about no.

Ben and Sam
Sorry, especially I think for like people who have strong movement practices and already um, a lot of people will come here ah to our space and. They’ll have strong movement practices and then Ben is super strong and very persuasive so he will always get people to fly on him and a lot of times. It’s they’re always very humbled because it is a lot different to move with somebody than it is to just move by yourself. And it’s like an end if you have a strong movement practice. They’re always usually humbled and like oh I’m hooked. Um, so it’s like very cult like in that way, it’s a it’s just a very different mode of moving moving. Even if you’ve done a lot of athletics like chances are. If you haven’t done partner acroratics before you haven’t been balanced which is which is a very very different feeling.

I’m so I’m torn. There’s multiple ways to go here and I’m watching the clock tick. Ah I’m but did I correctly see something about contact improv on one of your Instagram posts because Andrew Cicino has been on the show. I would say he’s a friend of mine I don’t know you know how good he would consider me a friend but I’ve done a little bit of contact improv and that’s probably the closest thing that people would have bumped into in in terms of it’s not partner practice like contact improv isn and partner practice like ballroom dance. But there’s this dynamic aspect to it if you have other people that you’re in contact with and I think that’s a good place.

Ben and Sam
Oh sure and it can get pretty acrobatic I mean if you look at like ah like momentics and some places like that like they do some very acrobatic ah contact Improv Style style style movement right? where they’re getting people on top of each other. They’re carrying them around and stuff like that.


Ben and Sam
Ah, and yeah, it’s similar I think the difference in the conduct Improv is in the the body tension a little bit especially of the flyer whereas like in conduct Improv A lot of times you’re trying to be loose and like go with the flow whereas in acrobatics.


Ben and Sam
It’s going to be a little bit more tension a little bit more.. Ah yeah, a little more active a little more active, especially on the flyers roll. We do have. We do have a contact in pref class. Um, we don’t teach it. It’s a teacher that is a friend of ours. Um I don’t. Do much contact improv because like he was saying it’s different for the flyer I don’t have that kind of flow. Um I don’t quite understand letting my body be flowy like that and draping I’m like no I’m strict and Rigid and I’m an object.

I’m I’m chuckling with you I too I am in that boat. Um, you we have you have said here and you have said we have so now I need to know where where is here What is the name of your organization and where can people find out more.

Ben and Sam
Oh that’s important sure so about five years ago ah this all started in long island city. We had a ah gym there which then. cosmic fit club cosmic called Cosmic Fit Club yeah and it was a great place. We had all sorts of fitness classes all sorts of events we had cosmic lights and projectors with our parties. We do all sorts of very fun. Ah movement related activities there it closed due to covid. And right now we have a loft in greenpoint we rent it for aerial training we so we have ah all sorts of aerialists and acrobats and different and dancers different movement practitioners come here and we’ve got ah basically 2 so 2 smaller private studios. Ah, we get a lot of ah rehearsals and things like that in here. So and we teach classes out of here and we have arrower point rentals we rent it by the hour. Yeah oh just cosmic cosmic fit club at cosmic foot club.

Um, and what’s the Instagram handle I don’t let people get away.

Ben and Sam
O m I c f I t c l u b and then we have our schedule up at um you can see any events that we’re hosting um I’m excited. We’re hosting a contortion event pretty soon from my contortion teacher. So super excited about that.

Nice terrific I warn people. But.

Ben and Sam
And then you can see our classes as well and also um, our we put the move and my C event up on our website as Well. We linked it to um, their website. We’re really excited to be partnering with them I’m excited to learn some parkour. I’m going to learn some flips this.

Ykes you might have just started a holy war. Oh that’s cool. Um I weren’t guests up front and say like I won’t let you out without telling me the names of if you’ve tried eventually people um like stop. What’s the name of the thing tell me about it. Cool.

Ben and Sam
Um, okay yeah.

Anything else rattling around in your minds at the moment that you’re like oh and I also want to add, you can say no, you can say whatever you like.

Ben and Sam
Um, um. No I Think it’s great I think ah, we’re excited to come see what these guys are building on the rooftop and it sounds like it’s gonna be a really fun event and there’s gonna be I’ve been what we’ve been watching the social media and stuff. There’s a lot of cool people coming and yeah, it’s gonna be great.

Yeah, there there is a lot of co people I don’t know how I got invited I have imposter syndrome I watched them oh good I’m gonna hide behind the 2 of you. Um I’ve yeah when you mentioned like the.

Ben and Sam
Same this.

Nature of what you’re going to be teaching I was going to make a joke like and we’re gonna be on a rooftop. We really are going to be in a rooftop. However, the the rooftop has sides and and covered don’t panic people definitely go and you you want to go.

Ben and Sam

Ben and Sam
I we used to do ah acrobatics on her rooftop which has about like ah like a ° to it. yeah yeah I booked a gig on a rooftop. Ah.

Um, in the minute they call that a tumble home right? off? Yeah not good.

Ben and Sam
Next week and I was like how close are we to the edge of this because this seems like not a good idea but they said they promised me I was far from the edge. Um I do want to talk about our other class our other class we’re teaching on Sunday is a group class group acrobatics class and and.

Roll all right look up. Um, please do.

Ben and Sam
Hand to hand and Footananna great I love hand hand and foot to hand but like honestly group acerbatics is what’s more close is what’s close to my heart. It’s what I um like so much more. Um.

And and you said that’s which day was that I’m not sure that I heard that Sunday cool I actually I think Moveyc actually I am hundred percent certain by the time anybody hears this I know that the full schedule is published so you can see who’s where in which days but keep going group.

Ben and Sam

Ben and Sam
Yeah group backros just anything you’re doing with more than 2 people. Ah, it’s a whole lot of fun because kind of like what we’re saying before with the more people you have the more people you have to help you through things and so you can get to do a lot of very fun things. Ah even early on.


Ben and Sam
Ah, and it’s a lot of collaboration and it’s a lot of fun because you can build something with 4 or 5 people and make 1 big structure. yeah yeah I like it for the fact that i.

Shared experience. Cool all right good.

Ben and Sam
I’m pretty like I am pretty strong for my size so I get to base and I get to fly um at the same time when we do like pyramids which is really fun for me. Um, and it’s it’s like a big challenge. Um, for me as well. Which I think is fun and just like also the communication between because it’s hard enough to communicate with None people when you do partner acrobatics and then you add um more people and the challenge of communication and making sure everyone’s heard and making sure that. You know everyone’s safe because you can do a lot bigger tricks with more people so making sure that the safety is happening is there is also important. Um, which is nice because which we’re fortunate here. Have a set of lines for when we throw people we can catch them in a safety belt as well.

Well I think that’s probably a good place to call it for today I will just say and of course the final question 3 words to describe your practice.

Ben and Sam
You go first. Ah. Fun, exciting flow. Um, technical. Creative um, thoughtful. I don’t know do that spell an anagram of some sort. We. What do we? What do we to get if we put the none letters of all those Ff. Yeah.

Terrific. Well thank you I’m so it doesn’t fef to well actually you know wait. Wait. There’s an interesting symmetry here. Ben’s is fe f for fun, exciting flow and sam’s is technical creative and thoughtful I’m so I scribble as fast as I can which is Fef and Tct which is interesting slow anyway, I’m going to try I’m gonna but.

Ben and Sam
Um, theft that we just need to add a c in there and we’ll have a cosmic fit club. Yeah, we’ll start fit this highiku.

That’s what I was just thinking but all right? Let’s let’s what a happy coincidence to land on terrific all right guys? Um, thank you so much for taking the time and I appreciate joining me and I look forward to getting to re meet you in a couple weeks. Thanks.

Ben and Sam
Um, yeah, thank you, Thank you Bye everybody

Transcript for “Dani Almeyda and Tim Anderson: Original Strength, mission, and synergy”

Episode: Dani Almeyda and Tim Anderson: Original Strength, mission, and synergy

Dani 0:05
Our whole goal has always just been to get people to move, like to move and to get back to the very basics and the foundations and at the heart of that is always been that we wanted people to feel the hope that movement can bring into our life and to understand that moving heals the body. And so you know, kind of coming into all that I think that sometimes people get stuck in that fitness lens of needing a workout and thinking it needs to be complicated and, and things like that. And so when you look at learning new things, they’re thinking they’re just coming in to learn a couple of exercises to do XYZ. And it’s really it’s it’s a way of life is what we’re trying to kind of coach people through in a way to see people we’re trying to coach, coaches or professionals how to see the body and how to help other people see their own bodies, I guess.

Tim 0:56
But we also try to establish the conditions like so if you walk into our studio on the wall, it says I am awesomely and wonderfully made. Like that’s the message we want people to get when they come in to learn about themselves.

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Transcript for “Comfortable – with AnnSofie Svensson”

Episode: Comfortable – with AnnSofie Svensson

Craig 0:05
Hello, I’m Craig Constantine, welcome to the movers mindset podcast where I talk with movement enthusiast to find out who they are, what they do and why they do it. My guest today is Anne Sophie or and so as most people know her, and Sophie Svendsen. Welcome. And so it’s a pleasure to have a chance to talk to you.

AnnSofie 0:28
Thank you for having me.

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Transcript for “Exploration – with Panda Ilén”

Episode, Exploration – with Panda Ilén

Craig 0:05
Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Welcome to the movers mindset podcast, where I talk with movement enthusiast to find out who they are, what they do, and why they do it. My guest today is Panda Ilén. Welcome panda. It’s a pleasure to get a chance to talk to you again. We met I think we’ve only ever met once we met once at girl live, I did it School for the International Gathering. And that was super fun to meet you there. But welcome. Thanks for joining me.

Panda 0:32
Thank you so much. It’s an honor to be a guest. Oh,

Craig 0:35
now the bar has been raised. If it’s an honor, I appreciate you saying that I like I really enjoy sharing the like, to me, there’s like I’ve had this experience a few times, right. I’ve talked to a few people. But I really enjoy getting a chance to bring people into this experience so that everybody else can hear you. And I know that you have a theater background and I’m wondering are you really because I think you still are but how what are you doing currently if you are still doing currently what are you doing currently with theater and and how does how does theater like energize you and bring you to life?

Panda 1:15
I have one theater project coming up in in summer in Helsinki. I’ll be doing recorded. It’s a it’s an outdoors show where the people go the route in the urban area of of Helsinki. I’ll be doing Parkour in maybe two spots that the theater itself like I don’t limit it to theater, I see myself enjoying the performing arts as a whole.

Craig 1:47
What drew you to theater, and when you started really getting into Parkour you were pretty young, relatively young. What drew you to theater and then do you feel like something drew you to Arthur plasma free money however you think of it in your head? But there’s something that drew you to that from theater? Or do you feel like the two loves are still mixed together?

Panda 2:13
When I started Parkour as well. Well, my hobbies before that had been in sports, like basketball and football. And I had done Parkour for almost six years before I started in theater at all. My first theater project. I got into it, because they wanted performers with Parkour background. So I went with my Parkour background without any performing background.

Craig 2:41
I had it backwards. Yeah, um I’m guessing you’ve always had a performative like a performance streak. Like Were you always the the kid who was acting or showing off or?

Panda 2:57
Quite often? Yeah. I have a I have seen myself always as a as a creative person. And I like to make people laugh. I like to. Yeah. I like to be up there.

Craig 3:13
Yeah, going. What do you think is something that people get wrong about? You? Know, Like? That’s a hard question.

Panda 3:28
Yeah, that’s a question. I know. People never will ever tell me.

Craig 3:33
Hmm. Do you feel like you you would have us kind of say in joy to feel like you would enjoy your Parkour training even more? If you had more movement friends, like, like a lot of the video that I see of you? Is you moving by yourself? And maybe that’s just because you’re so awesome. I’ve had a chance to move like near you. And I’m just like, No, I can’t even like climb up the things that you just jumped? Do you feel like your your Parkour would be more fun if you had more movement, friends who played with you on daily basis? Or maybe that’s actually what’s happening, but I just don’t see that on your Instagram account.

Panda 4:15
As I live the last six months, the last half a year in in Norway. I live in a small island. And I only had, let’s say one person that I trained with. And he was quite busy all the time. So that was a healthy year when I mainly plane but going by myself. And that was one of the biggest reasons why I moved back to my hometown, where I have my Parkour community and my theater communities.

Craig 4:45
How long have you been back there? How long have you been back in Finland now?

Panda 4:50
I moved back one month ago. Yeah.

Craig 4:54
Thoughts on the transition like when you got there? How long did it take you? Do you feel like you’ve blossomed or like the excitement level went from 10 to 11? Or what’s it like now that you’ve been there a month?

Panda 5:08
But well, I think he was the right decision. I have been happier since I get to get to spend time with my partner, and all my friends from the Parkour and other various communities. There was nothing wrong with my life in Norway, the I really like my students, especially students, especially, I would have liked to continue working with them. But I was even more drawn back then once.

Craig 5:38
Winter in Norway, and Finland is serious. Here where I live in eastern United States in Pennsylvania. It wasn’t even white most of the winter this year, the last decade, it’s been getting less and less snowy. So I mean, I still go outside barefoot in the middle of winter. I’m like, yeah, there’s some snow on the ground, but it’s not that cold. But I’m wondering how the seasons affect you. Because I think this the summer from understanding that I have, I think the summer is shorter, but maybe sweeter. And and the winters are colder. So the the range maybe is bigger, like the what happens to you mentally, is bigger because of the seasons. And I’m wondering if you ever thought about do you train seasonally? Do you look forward to a particular season?

Panda 6:27
Yeah, I look forward to the summer, like all Finnish people almost do. The seasonal depression is an actual thing. It’s a real thing that when the autumn and winter Come on, the sunlight goes away, like we get maybe one hour of sunlight a day, then people get more depressed. It’s a scientific fact. And I don’t like darkness or the cold. I would like to have a summer all year long. But since the winter is an actual thing, we need to make the most out of it. Especially last winter, like one year ago, it was amazing. We had tons of snow and so many great outdoor sessions with my friends. Jumping flicks to snow, jumping from rooftops to snow. It was amazing. We even made a white big, winter Parkour video. Lesson for that got pretty popular.

Craig 7:28
Where’d you put the video? Is it on YouTube? And on Instagram?

Panda 7:31
Yeah, exactly. It’s on YouTube. It’s under the name of Helsinki winter takeover.

Craig 7:38
I will go look after we are done. I think everybody else would enjoy it too, based on what I’ve seen of pandas movement. Is there a particular when I look at your Instagram, there’s a lot of bar movement. And I mean, some of it is swinging, but a lot of it is dynamic like three dimensional. And I’m wondering, when you when you’re outdoors, people tend to move in like straight lines. But it looks to me like when you get into a built space that’s got a lot of bars or scaf that your mind sort of thinks in like I’ve seen you change directions or move sideways and I feel like your mind is less constrained. Maybe when you’re in bars indoors and scaffolding. And I’m just wondering if you’ve ever thought about that, like maybe how outdoors, you tend to think more linear like the classic A to B and maybe when you’re indoors you think more about swoops or flows and just thinking out loud. Have you ever thought about that? Does that sound like an actual thing that Panda does?

Panda 8:52
Yeah, maybe I haven’t really thought about it that way. Many times indoor gyms are quite limited. You can go long stretches of run. So you have to wait around, make longer lines. Usually I just go wherever my mind likes to go. Like I’m not going to force it in any direction.

Craig 9:16
How the this left turn, how long have you been bouldering or climbing? I noticed your started the started seeing more indoor bouldering indoor rock climbing. How long have you been doing that?

Panda 9:31
I think I have like folders once or twice a year like since whenever but I actually started ordering more. Just before Corona. It was 2019 so Parkour Armageddon where where I got a spark. We had a bouldering workshop there. And after that I started doing it more more and more. When I was when I lived in Norway in small island. I didn’t have proper I left my vocabulary.

Craig 10:09
The bouldering gym, like didn’t have an indoor space.

Panda 10:12
Is that what yeah, I didn’t have indoor space or proper whether to throw it out, throw it outside. So I had a longer break during those months. But now that I’m back to Finland, I started started doing it more.

Craig 10:26
It’s addictive, isn’t it? There’s something about the private while the problem solving is the thing that that hooks everybody that I know that’s hooked. Have you had a chance to Boulder outdoors? Not sure. Like how warm it gets in the summer? And what spaces are around? Have you? Have you had a chance to Boulder outdoors? And what are your thoughts on on indoor bouldering versus outdoor bouldering?

Panda 10:49
Yeah, I haven’t gotten the chance to do it outside. Only a couple of times, I’ve done it on natural boulders outdoors. But in my hometown in Nebraska, we have this great wall. External building that’s maybe 100 or 50 years old, it’s a kind of a positive angle, a slab, I really much like to spend my time there in the spring. So many

Craig 11:21
things, what are there types of movement in bouldering that you think challenged you the most? Like I’ve seen you do, you know, a meter and a half dinos. And I’m like, well, that’s that’s not challenging. But, and also, I think you made a comment somewhere about, you know, cheating, like with reach cheating, if you’re naturally that, you know, if your diagonal reaches that long, that’s how you solve the problems. And I’m wondering if there are things about bouldering that you feel like you need to work on because they’re your weakness?

Panda 11:57
I mean, I think there should be, and there could be if I was more, more like, negative about moldering if I wanted to make progress, like a well rounded. But in Boulder, I’m mainly interested about the things that I can do. And what are most fun to me, which are the long diagonals and the positive slab walls.

Craig 12:26
Yeah, I like the the footwork part of bouldering I happen to be lucky that there’s like a half hour walk from my house, there’s a very, very old mountain range. It’s like only 100 meters high anymore. Like it’s very old. But there are boulders that are that were left from a glacier. So you’ll walk up in the woods, and they’ll be a perfect boulder just stuck in the middle of the woods. Like was where this come from some glacier, put it there millions 1000s of years ago, I’m not sure how long that was. So I love and the next folder would be different geology. So there’s nothing it’s like what’s going on here. This one’s like sandstone. This one’s like concrete. It’s weird. conglomerates and rock with sedimentary, but it’s on its end instead of like, it’s really weird. Yeah. And I love the footwork part of it. So when you mentioned slabs, there’s this one thing I called green garden wall because it’s all covered in moss. And they’re just these tiny little places where you can get a little foothold. And you can just like move. It’s like the size of a wall in a big room. It’s not even very large. But you can just move back and forth on that with just fingertips for balance. And that movement with feet. Which is something that I find it’s like a parallel to the kind of Parkour movement that I like to do. I like precise foot placement. And, um, you have very, I think, very precise foot placement in your Parkour movement. And I’m wondering, do you see parallels so when you’re moving in Parkour, we all tend to be it’s like more movement we’re like, but when you’re moving in climbing unless you’re doing a die, no, it’s more like the way a lizard moves where there’s like, you know, one limb and then the next limb, and then you know, but I’m wondering if you see parallels between the kinds of movements in Parkour and the kinds of movements in bouldering.

Panda 14:28
Yeah, yeah, I do. Even more. What I’ve been amazed by is that there are so many new ways of moving your body, new directions and just new ways. In Boulder that I’ve never done in support that have never come across that there can be such a movement problem where you have to use your body and your muscle in this way.

Craig 14:58
Have you noticed any change to Your Parkour movement. I mean, it’s probably just fizzy, physically better increased strength. But have you noticed people’s making comments about your Parkour about maybe that’s an interesting way to attack that. And then you realize, oh, that may actually have come from maybe bouldering has challenged you to think more like above and to the sides of your head or something like that.

Panda 15:22
Yeah, the problems are the lines that I come up with, are heavily influenced by bouldering. Especially when I’m practicing with my friends who also do bouldering. I like your challenges. But I do.

Craig 15:40
Think there’s a lot of fun when one activity that you’re passionate about, informs another one that you can kind of like, go back and forth, you can go play in one mental space, and then go play in another mental space. So I think that’s I think it’s neat that you have those two different things. Maybe theater makes a triangle out of the three of them, I think your theater practice informs your Parkour or your bouldering. Maybe not a good question, maybe just a weird question.

Panda 16:15
But sometimes when I play, I like to think that in that, can I somehow use these skills on stage? Or what kind of skills do they practice next, that would be helpful on stage?

Craig 16:31
That’s an interesting thought. Have you thought about us. So in my mind, I saw a short video that you did, which was a dissent in a parking garage. And I don’t know if you had six friends to shoot it, or if you did it six times and move the camera. But it’s, a lot of times when one sees a dissent, you get a view of the of the athlete moving through all or most of the dissent. And this one was very different. It was like, one little move, and then your as you disappeared, the camera, there was a cot, and then it’s like, oh, here, you come in this way. And then so you got almost like the view from random people in their car, you know, it’s like somebody turns around in their cars, pants, like, what do you know? And then the next person on the next level? I’m wondering, if you think about when you’re, when you’re imagining lines and movements in Parkour? Do you think about what it’s gonna look like from the outside? Or I find I’m always trapped? In my first person, I cannot even think to try to imagine what would the movement look like, from some other point of view? I’m like, stuck in first person point of view? Do you? Are you able to imagine your movement from another point of view while you’re doing it, and while you’re planning it,

Panda 17:49
I am able to, but I’m more interested in facing the facing the lie facing the problem as it is. And after that, I’ll get more

Craig 18:02
perspective, maybe

Panda 18:03
more perspective, and fun to think of how it looks like. And usually when I, when I make a challenge or a line, and I want to film it, I don’t I notice that it’s very hard to film, either by myself or with a friend. But usually, it doesn’t matter. Because when I film stuff, it’s more about, like, memories myself. That how did how I felt during those times. And one was about this challenge.

Craig 18:37
That’s a good point about trying to maybe capture the emotion and the feeling. In addition to just the visual, I think that’s, that’s a good point. And that that may come partly from theater because imagining what you want to capture, I want to capture Joy, I want to capture focus that requires you to do that you have to you have to become that emotion for the camera. So that’s an interesting. I’m thinking bouldering Parkour in theater, and they can that’s that’s the panda triangle. That’s the thing. I well, as much as I hate to say that the time always flies by and we’ve gone past 90 minutes. So I will just say and of course the final question, three words to describe your practice.

Panda 19:33
I would say, happiness, honesty and exploration.

Craig 19:39
Terrific. Well, Panda, like I said at the beginning, thank you so much for making the time to sit still long enough to talk to me, and I hope you have a terrific rest of your day.

Panda 19:50
I hope so too. I’m going bouldering!

Craig 19:52
oh! …it’s too maybe I’ll go bouldering it’s freezing cold. Bye.

Panda 19:58
Bye. Thank you so much.

Transcript for “Priorities – with Trevor de Groot”

Episode, Priorities – with Trevor de Groot

Craig 0:05
Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Today I’m talking with Trevor DeGroote. Trevor, welcome. Hello. Nice to have you today. Ahead of you, you and I have gone back and forth a bunch of times. And I was completely confused about where you were on the planet. I mean, I know that you’re from the Toronto area, but my brain had you pegged as being in South America. So your doppelganger is having a great time in South America sorry. But thanks for making space to talk to me. Um, I ask people often before we start recording, I often ask people the same question, I’m not going to say it on air because it’s like a little bit of a secret. It’s not that big of a deal. And you mentioned options when I started talking about movement and just kind of get a feel for what’s going on in Trevor’s head this morning. And I’m wondering, when you, when you have the opportunity to be in a new space or someplace that you’ve never been before, which we all find is pretty rare these days, right? But when you get a chance to be in a new space, and you’re thinking options, and you say options to me is that options to teach is that options for you to discover is an options to create, like, when one goes into an environment, you know, we know that we’re creating like a visual spectacle. What do you mean? Like, what are the options that come to mind?

Trevor 1:23
I think you actually like listed a bunch of them, to be honest, like,

Craig 1:28
Cool, thanks. See you later. Bye.

Trevor 1:31
Dandy deal. So no, basically, like when I go into a new space, and the word movement might pop into my brain, I tend to just think of all the different options of types of movements that I could do. But also in that, like, Hey, this is a great new opportunity for me to learn a new concept that I might not have known before. I think Parkour is very unique in that there’s not many other sports that force you to necessarily see the world differently. And so like, I think that’s one of the the biggest, like benefits that I see to our sport. And especially like, I didn’t mention this to you yet. But like, with my training and such like not to say that I don’t train Parkour anymore. I do like to train Parkour, but like, my focus is less heavily on Parkour. I’m interested in rock climbing, I’m interested in training for stunts, I’m interested in martial arts stuff. So So when when the word movement comes to my head, I think of all these different options of different types of movements as well, you know, but like, those sports don’t have that, that visual impact on the world that Parkour does. And like, I will never see the world, the same way that I saw it before. I before I was introduced to Parkour, you know, I’ll never see the world the same way again, just because of the fact that I know I can do all these things in this environment that I’m walking through. And so to go back to your question of when I walked through a new space, like, I think it’s it’s really about, like that experience that you share with other people that are in the community that that makes Parkour unique. And Parkour is, is just that a sport as well. So like, I don’t want to say that it’s unique from any other sport, and it’s special in some way or anything like that, because it is just a sport as well. But I think that is one of the the main differences between other sports is that like, I guess rock climbing has it to an extent like you can the way you read the problems, it comes along the same way. But a lot of times, that doesn’t happen when you’re just walking about your day to day life, you know, so it’s really fresh.

Craig 3:30
Yeah, if you get in a building, then rock climbing turns, like looking Can I climb on this building? Should I are the police gonna react to that? Yeah, I think you make some good points about, I’m going to put words in your mouth and say, perspective shifts about. If you get too mentally boxed in to thinking I do Parkour, or Freerunning or Art, du Déplacement, whatever want to call your movement, I do this kind of thing, then you can kind of become a little inbred, but you can kind of get stuck on certain kinds of ideas. And I think you make a good point about when you say options, you’re thinking about entirely different kinds of movement, which most people wouldn’t classify as Parkour. And so I’m trying to, like, well, we could go down a rabbit hole on climbing, what’s your passion? You know, passion does your thing that you’re really, really getting energy from these days.

Trevor 4:30
Honestly, I think it’s bouldering. I like bouldering quite a bit. And just like, at least for us, like in Canada, like a lot of gyms have been closed for a long, long time here and just like other places in the world, for sure, but basically, our last lockdown ended in February.

Craig 4:51
I was wondering, I thought I just saw some Facebook posts about what’s the name of the gym?

Trevor 4:56
Um, oh my gym. Yeah, gym, my gym. called Play project. I own play project. It’s been around since 2015. We we’ve had our own space since like, end of 2018. Beginning 2019. But yeah, like that’s rough.

Craig 5:12
I’m glad to hear that you I don’t want to say survived the pandemic because that makes it sound like you know, the pandemic, like the gym got sick but no hope ever knows. I mean, I’m glad to see that you were able to weather the obvious necessary difficulties. But anyway, I wanted to make sure like, what’s the domain name for play project?

Trevor 5:29
It’s play

Craig 5:32
Check it out. But I interrupted you, you were talking about bouldering and gyms are starting to open up now since the last lockdown has ended.

Trevor 5:41
Yeah, so like, for me, I was able to like because in the gym, I was able to keep my like Parkour training up during the lockdowns and such. And I was training stunts as well throughout that time. Because during the lockdown, like the film industry hadn’t closed. So there’s training like fight choreography, training falls, all that kind of stuff. And so for me, like the thing that was missing during the lockdown, and during a lot of these closings was the fact that like, I couldn’t climb. And so when the gyms opened up, it’s just like, oh, I can do that. Again. It’s really just something that I was missing. And it feels nice to not I don’t want to say feel completed and be all like deep and stuff. But it’s just you can tell that there was something that was missing there that like when I got back from the climbing gym, I was just like, oh, that’s fine. So yeah, it’s good.

Craig 6:35
I’m curious your thoughts on the differences between I always say I fancy myself a climber, there are some really nice bouldering problems on the hill, like a half hour walk up, you know, through the park by me. But um, I’m like, you know, v zero, baby, I fall off V0… baby stuff. But I and I’m with you, like there’s an aspect to activities that you do together, even if it’s not like you’re competing, like it’s a tennis match, but just working the same problem when people are, you know, have people are resting while somebody is trying to. And I’m wondering what your thoughts are about the I think there’s a different energy level to I’m going to say like jamming in a Parkour space, versus they’ll call it jamming. But you know, work in a bouldering problem with a group. And I’m just wondering if you’ve ever thought about the difference in the energy level, and maybe how one level versus the other is more conducive to, like the group bonding or the group energy exchange? Yeah, it’s on that.

Trevor 7:33
For sure. I do feel like there’s definitely a difference in energy. I also feel like it’s context specific. So like, if you’re at a Parkour gym, and there’s someone there that’s just doing like, stuff that’s not even close to the stuff you can be like, well, then if you’re climbing and there’s someone that can just go and crimp this, like be six or seven or something like this, and like, you’re just like, there’s no way I’m ever going to be able to hit that today, at least, you know, then it’s hard for you to have that like that group amalgamation with them. And that group like problem solving, and whereas I feel like Parkour, like I’ve had, like a lot of good experiences in the Parkour community, where it’s like, Hey, I’m training with people that are all roughly the same level, and we’re all stumped on this one challenge that we really want to get, you know. And so for me, it’s just very much like that collaborative like element to both Parkour and climbing that I really enjoy. And I think it’s fun. And then the other element is like, when, like, the, the teaching aspect of it, I like as well, and the learning aspect of it, like so like, I do feel like there’s different vibes. And what I mean by the teaching aspect, and the learning aspect is if I’m training with someone that is like V six, V seven, or whatever it may be, like, I’m probably gonna try the problem that there because I’m very big proponent of like, try everything you know, and see if you can get it. But like, it’s unlikely that I’ll be able to flash it, it’s unlikely that I’ll be able to even even send it, you know, but at least from them, I can, it’s a learning opportunity for me, and I can get like nuggets from them and try and like grow and develop myself. Or if I’m training with people that maybe it’s their first time climbing or whatever, I’ll ask them, hey, like, Do you need any help with that, or whatever it may be like, and if they don’t, then that’s totally fine, you know, but it’s cool to see like how people approach it for the first time as well. And like I learned from that, too, so So for me, it’s about the learning process. And you have the same thing with Parkour as well, from that side of it. Like, I’ve been doing Parkour for 13 years now, since 2000, end of 2008. And so like, over the course of that training time, like I’ve seen all types of people, I’ve seen all types of experienced levels and trained with all of them. And there’s something to be like taken away from every single one, which is great. Whether you realize it in the moment or not, even if it’s a bad experience, like you can still take something away from it, which I really kind of have learned to appreciate over the years, whereas I think at first, I was very grumpy a lot of times and there’s ego involved when I was training with someone that was better than me because I was just like, like, I don’t

Craig 10:03
want you’re demotivating me right? Knock it off. Yeah. Yeah. So whereas

Trevor 10:07
now I think it’s just about perspective, everything in life is and if you can you take a fresh perspective that like, is beneficial to your overall long term growth. And that’s perfect, you know. So

Craig 10:20
what do you think about? We were talking a little bit earlier, possibly before we started recording, we were talking a little bit about media in Parkour context. And I’m just thinking, I don’t, I have like, My hobbies are, like, bulkhead divided in my brain. So I don’t do anything on the internet related to bouldering. Or rock climbing, like, I mean, like, I know where Mountain project is, like, if I’m going somewhere, like, where are the routes? But I don’t hang out, like in the subreddit for bouldering. I don’t even know if there is one, there’s got to be one. I don’t hang out. I don’t follow people on Instagram, who I know are climbers like it’s just, I’m not in that world at all. And I’m wondering if you in terms of bouldering, because it seems like a maybe not quite a passion. But this seems like a passion for you? Do you have that sequestered? Like, yeah, I know what happens to the sport of Parkour to my personal experience of Parkour, when the social media inundation takes over, there’s just too much I can’t and we also have to, like, put our hands up to push it away. Have you begun to engage with social media for bouldering? And climbing? Or are you keeping it at arm’s length? And if you’re keeping it an arm’s length, because that’s the face you’re making? Did you do that on purpose, or you’re just now realizing that?

Trevor 11:35
So honestly, even with Parkour, like, like, I know, you’ll, you’ll see this, even with my own Instagram, I don’t even go on my own Instagram anymore. I just like, I was like, Oh, alright. Forever, probably like, but basically, like, for me, I think it got to the point where, like, I almost had to reevaluate, like, why, why am I training and what am I training for? And like, what is the point basically, and it came down to him in my head, like the point not being to watch other people do Parkour, the it’s not about what been climbing. It’s about, like, the feeling that I get when I do that movement. And the feeling that I get, like, when I solve a new problem, or complete a new challenge, you know, and that’s very much like, I think is reflected in my social media. Like, I don’t even need to like, I feel I don’t feel the need to have to post if I get a new challenge. You know, I used to feel very pressured and the need to like, hey, I need to put a new post out, I need to do this. Or even other people, like there’s a as you’re mentioning oversaturation of Parkour media, and it’s like, I don’t care if someone’s double sided, like,

Craig 12:49
like, double sided precision, right? Double Sided IMAX, right. Like,

Trevor 12:53
at some point, like, someone’s going to do everything in Parkour. And like, that’s great. And I, it’s cool that it’s pushing the sport, but like, how does that impact my personal training, and maybe that sounds a little bit selfish in terms of like, not me, not caring about, like, where the community’s at, you know,

Craig 13:10
but I think it sounds selfish, I think it sounds sane, fully defensive, defensive, in a good way. Like, one has to know one’s limits, I can’t consume all this stuff, if I did, it would just make me feel like I suck, because I should be on training.

Trevor 13:25
So that’s a part of it. I think the other part of it is like, it’s not even like, cuz I used to compare myself a lot to like other people, and how they trained and things like that. And even now, like, that those comparisons still happen. But they’re more in a better way. Because I frame it differently. Like I mentioned about, like, if you’re training someone that’s better than you, that’s a learning opportunity, you know. And so I could be theoretically using social media to do that, to learn from other people commenting on their posts and asking them about, like, what they’re doing. But I the reason why I like to try and not try and I don’t actively try and avoid it, but like, it doesn’t interest me anymore, is because I feel like over the course of my duration of training, I’ve seen a lot like I’ve seen like, the first side pre I was there in Vancouver, and at the NAPC, where Nate Weston did his side flip pre to the bar to double flyaway off, you know, and you feel the energy in the room and like, the what you get out of social media does not Trump feeling it in real life. And so I’d rather be either working on my business, I’d rather be like training myself I’d rather be doing I’m interested in real estate. So in looking at that kind of stuff. It’s not really like it’s not really something that really like I guess, tickles my fancy. Or energizes you right? Yeah, exactly. It seems like it’s like holy crap. This is a lot. I’m overwhelmed by the amount of stuff that I now feel obligated to watch because this guy’s my friend. Do I know this guy? You know what, a follow back. Yes.

Craig 14:51
Yeah. So you’ve got a lot going on. Obviously, I don’t mean that in a bad way. But how, you know, entrepreneurship, running Jim, we all understand the personal drive to Yeah, I feel like I need to go move. Like I need to go out and do something. Passion like new passion projects, like if anybody’s in a boulder and you’re like you wind up with like, Oh, I gotta go, I gotta go work on that some more, Oh, I gotta go practice this skill, which will get me to that or whatever the pieces that’s kind of unlock it, you know all these things you’re juggling, and some time has to be allocated to sleep. So how do you? How do you prioritize your days? Do you do it in the morning to do it the night before? Do you do it off the cuff Lab of the seed your pants? How do you figure out what’s the first big rock to go in the jar, and then the smaller rocks that go around it, and then the sand on top.

Trevor 15:39
So it’s interesting. So lately, I’ve been trying to reprioritize those things and like something that I didn’t realize until a while back maybe like, three months ago, four months ago is that like, I was not prioritizing things efficiently, or there wasn’t a process for that and, and place that was as effective as I wanted it to be. And so what I found was that, like, I was spending too much time working on my business, and less time for my own personal training. And for my own like developments and accomplishments that way. And part of this was like with the lock downs and stuff like that you’re always pivoting, you’re always trying to figure out what the next thing is that we need to do to like, get ready for a reopening or whatever it may be, you know, and like, because that territory is like a little bit unfamiliar ground. Like, at our gym, specifically, we have a full time staff team, there’s four of us. And between the four of us like I’m the owner, but I also deal with a lot of the higher level stuff. Whereas the others deal with like, whether it’s Jim buildup and construction, whether it’s like our programming quality and the lesson plans in that curriculum, and, or whether it’s the administrative stuff and the client relations, you know, so we all have our own like kind of things that we focus on. But I found that like, a lot of times it’s a full team effort with with the lockdown with treading on that untrodden ground again, it’s just like, we’re all kinda like helping each other and making things work to to make like to get the gym by basically, mind you, the government in Canada has been very helpful, like we’ve gotten a bunch of grants and funding from them and stuff like that. So like, we weren’t really ever in jeopardy of closing because of that, thankfully. But it’s just like, not as it bothers me when our business is not running as efficiently as it could be. And so when those moments kind of kick into place, like that really nags at me, and in my head, I’m just like, oh, I need to work on this, I need to work on this. And so that’s where my focus was going for a long while. And then when the lockdown ended, I realized, hey, I don’t I haven’t been prioritizing, you’re spending a lot of time for me. I’ve been some time, like I’ve been, I’ve been doing the sun training, which is great. But I also felt like that was a little bit for work. Just because when the gym was closed, I had more time to focus on that. And the film industry hadn’t closed. So I was trying to get days on set and things like that, right. But that felt like it was also working. I felt like there was not a an area of my life that I had to just play and to just like, develop and explore my training and my passions. And that that was three or four months ago when the lockdowns ended and climbing came into play. And I was just like, Oh, that’s really fun. So I’m gonna go do that, you know, one thing that I miss actually, that’s still not back is diving, like a lot of the like local pools and stuff of diving boards. And a lot of the diving boards and stuff are still not open, which is unfortunate, because like, we take like some of our staff group out and we just go diving stuff, and they’re fun flips and stuff into the pool and just a good time, right. But like, those kind of fun elements that we used to have pre COVID don’t seem to they seem to be fewer and further between and less I prioritize that. So basically, the way I shifted going back to your question, as I shifted, my focus was, hey, what are the minimum requirements that I need to do in terms of my obligations to the gym? Once those are hit, then after that, okay, let’s focus on what’s a little bit of time for me. And then anytime on top of that, I can focus on whether it’s real estate, outstanding gym stuff or stents or whatever it may be, you know, but as soon as I change that mindset, it just like it was like a weight lifted off my shoulders almost. And it just made life more fun. So yeah, I

Craig 19:21
think that’s a good. That’s a good mindset. Definitely. Something that’s worth thinking about. If that sounds people listening, if that’s news to you definitely go think about that. All right. Well, try some be mindful of our time together. I’m watching it slip away, as I often say. So I will just say and of course, the phone question three words to describe your practice.

Trevor 19:48
So the first one is growth. The next one is exploration. And then the third one is movement diversity.

Craig 19:56
Terrific, as I often say, Trevor, thanks for coming. taking the time today. It’s been a pleasure. I’m glad we we haven’t seen each other in four or five years. So it’s great to get a chance to sit down and talk even as brief as it was. So thanks again.

Trevor 20:09
No problem. Awesome.