Transcript for “MaryBeth Gangemi: Environment, ‘natural movement,’ and breathing”

Episode, MaryBeth Gangemi: Environment, ‘natural movement,’ and breathing

MaryBeth 0:04
So you could say is walking natural movement? Well, yeah, probably right? We’re pretty much designed along right? But what if you’re walking with your head down looking at your phone with your mouth open breathing heavy, you know, is that so can say, well, if we want to focus on return to nature type of idea or more of a noun, making a little bit more naturally since like, how about like, really walk with, you know, posture up and look where you’re going and look, look around and, you know, see what’s ahead of you or what’s the sign you’re just pay attention and not even for like, security mean? Of course. Like, of course, there’s that right. But even just for like, noticing things, just like not letting all of it pass you by.

Craig 0:57
Hello, I’m Craig Constantine. Welcome to the movers mindset podcast, where I talk with movement enthusiast to learn who they are, what they do, and why they do it. This episode is with Mary Beth Ken gemmy. Environment, natural movement and breathing. Mary Beth can Jamie’s experience as a social worker has had a profound effect on how she approaches her movement practice and working with clients. She shares her own movement journey from city to countryside. Mary Beth discusses the importance of environment, breathing, and play on our ability to move well and naturally, Sean packs her thoughts on the connections between social work and movement, as well as creating spaces accessible to all. Mary Beth can Jimmy is a breath strength and natural movement coach. In addition to being a wife and mother, she has certifications in many different areas, including move NAT kettlebells, original strength and Boo tako breathing method. Mary Beth owns and runs Kay rose strong, where she teaches students to develop quality movement to support all areas of their life. For more information, go to movers mindset.com/podcast Thanks for listening. First of all, Marybeth, thank you for inviting me to your home. On one hand, I feel guilty because everybody invites me to their house or, or to their Parkour gym, or I basically just Hoffa cool places. So I really appreciate you taking the time out of your schedule. And I know you’re like can we have three hours and people are like three hours. Thank you for taking the time. Straight up my pleasure to meet you. I’ve like looked at a bunch of Instagram posts and recommendations from Julie Angel and all these things. I’m just like, oh, okay, definitely want to talk to me about follow him in North Carolina. Craig rambles. So, there are so many places to start, like, oh, we can talk about kettlebells we can talk about strength training we can talk about movement. I think maybe let’s let’s talk about the movement is integral to everything here. But I’m waving my hands to people can’t see it. Movements integral to everything here. There’s gonna guess it’s not a kid’s place that there’s a an adult Tree House place that there are. I’m not gonna say Parkour obstacles because they can be fused to all kinds of things. There’s spaces to like, move on open concrete, there’s spaces to move on indoor flooring. There’s the biggest collection of kettlebells I have seen including ones I’ve seen in gyms I was impressed. And like the yoga mats gym, like everywhere I look, there’s all I see bo staff I see things that I can identify. Did you Was there a point in your I’m gonna say in your life, like in your family life where the movement became the thing like, Okay, this this where we live is great. No, but we need to move. We need more elbow room, like, was there a point where you that then and then when you moved? What was it like when you got to the new space? And you started to be like, Whoa, we can I can really spread my wings. So tell me about that feeling in the new space.

MaryBeth 3:51
All right. Yeah. Well, thanks for coming out to my home here in the country. Well, I lived in just outside of Boston growing up. So it was not really country like this. And then I actually went to school in Atlanta.

Craig 4:07
And like the inner city, yeah. So I went to school in Atlanta

MaryBeth 4:11
was living in Atlanta for college. And, yeah, like, I started to feel like, all the traffic and just that, like, I can’t even breathe and I want space, you know. And so we moved from living Atlanta to Pittsboro, but it was the other side of Pittsboro. So it’s about 20 minutes from here, but it’s, it’s rural. We don’t have mail delivery, you know, right. Yeah. We don’t have to trash pickup, you know, and even that space, but it was a subdivision, even that space started to feel like, well, I still am getting in the car and I’m driving to the local trail so that I can run or be outside or just take a walk or just go and be so we actually found this location and built here because we’ve just so much want it to be He, by the trail and by the river,

Craig 5:02
something I just, I don’t know that I suspected it when I heard it. But when you mentioned it, it was like, like, I got the tour, like Craig gets a tour of everything. I got the tour. And it was like there’s a trail here. And I’m just like, maybe we should just not record and complete the river. I have a bathing suit. But when you mentioned that the way you said it, I was like, Oh, that’s really important. And it kind of like, caught in my mind as also, I don’t know if people can hear. There’s just no traffic. I love it.

MaryBeth 5:29
And it’s funny because I had the same thought like I’m meeting Craig. You know, it’s our first time, I really want to just maybe like maybe we can just go down to the river for a little while.

Craig 5:38
We could go to the river afterwards. I have a set of Teva sandals in a bathing suit. I don’t know what I want to go swimming. But But yeah, I’ve, I kind of suspected. So I’ve seen you do movement practice. And I kind of want to talk about breathing. And I always get self conscious. A lot of people I talked to know a lot about breathing. And I would say I know a lot about breathing too. But sometimes I sit in these horrible postures, because it’s unlike I need to perform for the microphone. So if I go like, I’m just gonna lounge back here, then it doesn’t. So let’s talk about when you were talking about, I got no knocks against Boston, I love Boston, I haven’t ever been to Atlanta only to the airport, that doesn’t count. But no knocks against those two cities. But there’s a, I almost wanna say there’s like a subsonic onslaught. And you know, like, the trucks and the sounds and like the hum of the city. And then there’s also a component. And I don’t want to make it sound like I don’t like people. But too many people feel like they’re pulling from me. I don’t mean like too many people I encounter I just mean like, if there are too many people around at the same time. Even if they’re being nice, I feel like they’re pulling from me. And I got to believe that me projecting, oh, I should stand up straighter. Or I should, you know, tuck my chin or like something, I’m guessing I’m doing something that makes it consumed my energy. But as you know very well, when you get out here, it’s

MaryBeth 7:06
notice how you feel like you can breathe?

Craig 7:08
Yes. So let’s talk a little bit about breathing. And maybe maybe the experience that some of your clients have when they come here, and you work with them on breathing and maybe basic movements. I don’t know exactly what you would do with each client. But can you take me through some of the experience that the clients have? You know, when they? Okay, let’s start.

MaryBeth 7:31
Yeah, well, you know, what I do with each person is going to be individualized. So if someone comes to me, and identifies some breathing disruption, or something that I think could be stemmed from a breathing disorder, or disruption or inefficient breathing, then we’ll dive right into that. But sometimes people come and their first thing is like, you know, I have an autoimmune disease. So I have to be careful about what I do for training. And I also have osteopenia, and my doctors saying, strength train, right? So what do I do, you know, or I’ve showed up at the local 24 hour gym, whatever, that’s not the name brand of any, any place, and they don’t really know how to engage it at the gym in a way that meets their needs. So I strive to try to, you know, come along side them and that journey of figuring that out for them. So, for some people, again, we start right on breathing other people we might be focused on, you know, other types of movement, but it always comes in, right, sooner or later. Right. So I’ll tell you a little story is when how I got into breathing, or go, I mean, I was breathing from the time I was born, right? Oh, I started to think about how I was breathing was I actually was on a movement retreat. I went with my family, to Thailand, and did one of these retreats that they were doing at the time. I forget what year it was several years ago. My son was four. So he was little. And on the day that we talked about breathing. You know, we were lying on our back and the instructor was named Vic and he was talking about feeling your abdomen rise and fall. And you know, I think I think we did something like the drill where you like put a book on your belly. I, I couldn’t do it. Like I was breathing because I was alive. And I wasn’t right, right. I knew I was breathing. But I was like, hey, like I can’t stop my chest from doing all the breathing. And I actually couldn’t even I couldn’t even figure out how to access it to change it. Like even though I then was aware. So and then the other thing I realized on that same cord even though going into that workshop, I could do climbing skills, I could run pretty well I was running consistently I could do the leg swing ups you know some of the climbing things I could do

Craig 9:53
and that requires above sitting you know, like idle oxygen, right? So you think I know how to breathe

MaryBeth 10:00
I’m breathing, but I saw I’m doing these what I thought, you know, more advanced movement skills, you know, the things that, you know, can you do this or you know, and I was like worked really hard like, for I show up all the way in Thailand, I want to know that I can get my button out tree and I can do this technique, whatever. But the most simple thing of like, you know, breathing low and slow into your 360 degrees all around the lower body, you know, I can do and then when we were in the water, and he was because that was part of that move, not course was had some aquatic element, you know, I could swim. But when he had us go under, and like sort of see how long I forget the exact quest, but it was essentially go under, and I was always the first one up, like, I could not hold my breath. And I would just kind of look, you know, and look around, and I couldn’t hold my breath that long. I don’t remember the times it doesn’t even matter. It was just an awakening for me to realize, maybe it’s not just about what legs swing up what climb, what vault, what pace you have, but like, there’s something more fundamentally going on. So thankfully, I had awareness from that rather than what a lot of people get it from is like, you know, other breathing related disorders. Or congestion, or like, I didn’t really have a physical symptom that was my wake up, but it was just starting to move in realize so. So then from that point, I started to focus on okay, you know, how do I get better at this how to, you know, what do I do? And, you know, kind of lead

Craig 11:35
just because I love I love actionable takeaways for people listening was there? Is there an exercise that you remember unlocking first, like, what was the? So I don’t really recall, I mean, long ago, I remember in a martial arts class being asked to do diaphragmatic breathing, and I’m like, what don’t you know, I know exactly what you’re saying. And I know, for me, there was a breathing exercise that we did. But I’m like, do you remember which one was the one that unlocked it for you the first time,

MaryBeth 12:00
I would say it was actually something I learned from original strength. And that was to lie down on your belly, they call it like the crocodile position. So you’re just lying on the floor on your belly. But by instead of being on my back, and thinking about the book, or whenever the weight roll over, just let your natural weight, you know, just being on the floor, your body, your contact has all that your skin has all that contact with the floor. And breathing in. And I know that sounds really simple, but was that simple, but then I could start to feel the weight of the floor under my belly. And I started to I mean, it was just that first step is starting to feel like oh, that that is a lot lower. You know. So it was like that introduction to original strength and then and their particular type of movement system and their resets. I think that really unlocked a lot for me of the diaphragm access and slowing it down and feeling that Aha, like this feels better. Yes, yeah.

Craig 13:03
I’m glad you were able to remember because it’s, it’s always, like when you share that story of your experience, then people can like hold it in their head. And we probably could just go on the floor and lay face down right now and do it if you don’t feel comfortable. That’s okay. So I always love one. You know, it’s one thing for people to get what we call the experiential learning of like, hearing and meeting Marybeth, but it’s also great if you can get away with things and like, slap your headphones off your head and try something I like to find those when I can. So thank you for sharing that. Do you find that if you had to if you I was gonna say if you had to guess what percentage but probably the majority of your clients eventual you because you said have breathing, some sort of breathing is a me start pushing up all the sliders to make things Awesome. That one needs to be pushed up. Are there are there challenges that you see yet for yourself for breathing? Like, do you still find yourself like has it become completely totally embody the lesson? Or do you occasionally find in the face like busted

MaryBeth 14:05
the mast? I have so much more to work on to learn to room for growth, but I feel at ease and comfortable in my breathing for the majority of the time, right? So there might be ways that I exercise or move and get involved, you know, tons of kettlebell snatches or something like that, where your breathing starts to feel really heavy, then in that moment, I wouldn’t say it’s totally my breathing. But I think for day to day, and for exercise, like aside from the, you know, extreme sort of exercise things, but just my day to day and my exercise movement practice, I feel much more comfortable breathing and I noticed that it’s like, I don’t have to think about it but when I check in with my thinking about it’s like checks Yeah, it’s like yeah, your lips together your tongues on the roof of your mouth, you feel at ease, you know?

Craig 15:00
Do you have any idea how? Just roughly because I’m thinking if somebody is out there going, Oh, crap, that’s me. And they managed to unlock it? Do you have an idea of how long it took you to go from? Like, this is never right. I’m always struggling with figuring how to do it too, when it became a little more common, and you started to really feel like you had a handle on it.

MaryBeth 15:20
Yeah, I mean, it’s a great question. I feel like pretty quickly, you can see the changes or the progress, but I wouldn’t say it’s like, fully matured and established quickly. I would say like, if you are able to breathe through your nose, breathe, breathe comfortably start to get into some of those positions, like within that session or that week, I think you would find, you notice it feels something feels better. And that what you feel, what you sense about it is different for every one. So someone might say, I didn’t even realize I was getting the hiccups, like, every day or like often, but I just was knee so I didn’t even realize and now I’m not getting them so much. Or it could just be congestion, or headache, or, you know, just there’s so many different ways it manifests. But usually someone will say, like, I didn’t realize I was doing that until I stopped doing it. Right. Yeah.

Craig 16:19
I completely agree. Breathing is. Yeah, I feel like we don’t need more Craig anecdotes, but it’s definitely something that when I sleep, if I sleep on my back, depending on how much extra weight I have on at the time, it’s like that matters that affects sleeping, snoring. The net effects if you have partial sleep apnea, that’s a whole nother that’s correlated with heart disease and heart attack or stroke. It’s really what hurts hearts. Yes. Mojo? What about a year before Craig was offered a million changes? Is there anything that you now that you like, see how this works? Anything? You’re thinking like, well, I want to go and talk about scope? Okay? No, I’m not going there. Alright, what? There was a, I’m doing that I’m gonna do more breathing stuff. Craig’s brain, right, there’s like, way too many things in it. There was a, I’m gonna call it a drill or a test or an assessment. And I think I got it out of the show notes of another podcast that you were on, but they were basically talking about no prepping. No, no. She’s just, she’s just like, you know, breathe in, breathe out, and then pinch your nose shot. And there’s what he called the,

MaryBeth 17:28
you’re referring to the control, pause. Thank you. Like, also known as the bolt score,

Craig 17:33
I can’t get the stupid words out of my head. Okay, so the, the bolt score,

MaryBeth 17:37
body oxygen level test, which is the same thing as a control pause, I tend to call it a control pause.

Craig 17:42
Okay, so So and I did it. I didn’t do all of his driving, I did it. And it was like, I couldn’t decide. I’m like, Well, I’m counting in my head. And I’m thinking I feel like I could breathe in. So it was pretty close. It was pretty close to the I don’t wanna say to cut off because I want you to explain it. So I don’t want to do it. While I’m on the podcast, Mike, but walk me through what it is. And is it super bit brilliant, I think but

MaryBeth 18:03
it is brilliant. And there’s no cut off. There’s no cut off. So you know what it is, is in some breathing circles or tests and some evaluations, there might be some hyperventilation that happens. And you’ll get a different response from that. That’s its own thing, right? What this is, is this control pause is there’s no hyperventilation, there’s no breath preparation, there’s no like, Okay, I know I’m about to hold my breath. So let me get really let me take two or three really good breaths is not necessary. So what we’re looking to do is just breathe in through the nose, breathe out through the nose, just normal, right? Pinch the nose, and have a clock. So that you can just kind of look at the second hands or hit, you know, start on a timer. And you’re waiting for your first definite desire to breathe. But that can be confusing to people. Because sometimes, the second you start to hold your breath, you think to yourself, well, I could breathe, like, right? So, let that go. Okay, it’s okay, let that go. Don’t stop right there at like, you know, two seconds, three, set, whatever, as long as but feel for do you feel like this involuntary little like, a little feeling in your throat, or a little, little reflex in your diaphragm, like a little movement a little? It’s not, it’s not like a contraction that makes it sound so big, but just like maybe a desire swallow, right? So you’re looking to get to know yourself and kind of say you breathe in, you breathe out, you pinch, and you’re waiting for that, and then check the time. And that’s going to tell you a lot about how your body is tolerating the buildup of co2, how it’s tolerating, you know, you’re not taking in new fresh oxygen, right? And so you can use that as a baseline. You can use that as a measure to how you’re progressing. If you’re working on your breathing and you’re trying like to, you know, work on these and get this longer control pause. Now, that being said, now that you know, you’re, you’re sort of working and you’re getting a longer control pause, it’s really important that you don’t turn it into this, like a competition, right? Or, like, I know that you could go longer. That’s the whole point. It’s a comfortable breath all time until you feel that first definite desire to brace that I described. So it should be comfortable. So I know you can go longer. But what we’re looking to do is just kind of see where that is. And slowly that gets longer. You know, it might increase by a second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds, whatever it is, each week. So in that depends on how, how much you practice the exercises and how your body responds to them. Right. So and there’s no reason to necessarily make it happen really fast. Like this can be gentle process. Yeah.

Craig 20:56
When I, when I read that, and thank you for unpacking it, like clearly you’ve unpacked that before. I’m like, I bet. The what I love about that is it’s kind of like resting heart rate, or, you know, a blood marker. It’s like you can’t cram for the test in the last minute. What’s your resting heart rate right now? Wait, let me know. And I’ll just like, look at it. And I love that that’s the first time that I’ve ever seen any sort of really simple breathing. I’m gonna call it an assessment. You know, because there’s like vo two Max. Oh, that’s easy. Just put on this headset and plug your nose and get on the treadmill and do like it’s really complicated to measure of like blood chemistry and oxygenation in real time under load. But that’s a beautiful, simple just like, do this easy. And you can just do it whenever you want to do it this check your progress. What about on one hand, I want to ask a lot about kettlebells. But I’m not sure I’d want to go into that. But that might be too easy, but or too simple or too, so I don’t think I saw any other free weights.

MaryBeth 21:52
There’s a barbell in there. I didn’t see the barbell. I didn’t notice the board but I’m really into kettlebells

Craig 21:59
so what is it about her comes a skink? I’m wondering what is it about kettlebells that, oh, I’ve even seen those before we live in New York State sorry. This podcast is brought to you by small salamanders. I often joke is brought to me like coffee and or dogs. But in this case, salamanders. What is it? Is there something particular about kettlebells? Or is this just the variety of movements that you can accomplish with them? I don’t think I’ve ever actually swung around with the intention of doing exercises. I’ve helped friends who have kettlebells move. That’s my limit of kettlebell.

MaryBeth 22:29
So you’ve done some carries? Yes. Well, I’ve

Craig 22:31
done I’ve done a ton of farmer carries i for a while. And I didn’t stop because I don’t like CSAs. But I was supported a CSA, then it was like a mile and a half to the pickup and I would do literal farmer tears, I’d walk to the CSA and then walk back with like, whoa, summer veggie load? Yeah. Yeah, get it live, pretty strong hands to start with, but at the end, it’s like, I can’t put it down and open your hands again. Anyway, but what is there something particular about kettlebells that drew you to them, or that keeps you interested in them? Or,

MaryBeth 22:58
I mean, you know, first of all, it’s this idea. Like, I don’t want to depend on a machine at a gym. And I know it is, it is a tool a kettlebell, you know, but it’s not the same as like a treadmill, or one of those other type of machines that you have to go to the gym to use. So it is pretty versatile, that you can have them and set them up, you know, in your house, you know, for the most part, if you have just a little bit of stuff. It’s a great doorstop.

Craig 23:21
Right.

MaryBeth 23:22
But also, you know, that handle on them. I like enjoy this, you know, I feel like they’re comfortable when I interact with them. Like, I like holding them. I like carrying them I like working with them. You know, it’s like a tactical, tactile, yeah. sensation to, and there, it kind of it does work in line with that idea of your body is doing the work your you know, the way that the weight is and the shifting of, of moving the bell is different than say, even a dumbbell, you know?

Craig 23:56
Yeah, I like I’m not, I mean, honestly, say I’m not into kettlebells. But the free weights that I have that I handle the open chain versus closed chain aspect of them, maybe we should unpack that for people, but the open chain like kettlebells, and like, Oh, this is all open chain. So if you don’t want open versus closed chain is actually you playing with it, I can cut it, you’re gonna make me do it. Alright, let’s see if I do it right. I think my favorite description of closed chain is if you’re doing work, but you’re connected to something that’s not moving. So for example, we do a push up like a push up on a normal push up on the floor, you’re pushing in close chain. And then if you want to make your life suck, get a set of rings hanging from the ceiling and do a push up on the rings. There shouldn’t be any harder. I’m pushing the same amount of Craig off the floor, but you’ve removed the connection of your hands to the floor. If you haven’t ever tried a push up on rings, you got to try it. It’s such an eye opener, and all all it brings in all the rest of the muscles so your hands would normally be able to laterally or push or the one that I realized was I didn’t realize I had learned when doing a push up to pull to create the arch of the body like my back’s flat, but you’re making an arch. You do that by pulling on your toes and pulling on your hands. And guess what you do that with open chain? I mean, that’s not gonna you, you do this on an open chain. And it’s almost like, well, this is way harder. So I love the idea that kettlebells reinforced this. Yeah, do simple open chain movements even break ation like arm swinging. If you’re if you’re touching the ground, well, this is taking the closed chain. If you’re if you’re hanging by one hand, now this is all open chain and trying to control the torque, just the rotation of your body activates so many more things that you wouldn’t do if you did like a pull down on a lab machine or something. Yeah, well said I was gonna say, I don’t know, I don’t have it. There’s no question. You nailed it. I could I could look it up on the end to see if you have anything else to add the question there? What about how so? What’s a piece of movement? Like something that you that you do? Or you did that people you probably think people don’t know about? Like, I feel my people probably know it out. But like, two people know that Craig did martial arts like that kind of thing. I’m not looking for skeletons, just like, right,

MaryBeth 26:07
but I don’t let me just think for a minute before I just say like, I think, Oh, good. You know, I have one thing is that there was this studio in town that had his dance class. And I’m just like, I’m showing up and I was dancing. And I like had so much fun. It’s not really the thing that I think is like, the meat, or the core of my practice, or I don’t think of it that way. But it was like, I really like stepping outside of the role of like, teacher or out of the things that I’ve been doing the movement styles I’ve been into, and just showing up and turning up to like somebody else’s class. So I had a lot of fun. Just, you know, it was just a few weeks of showing up and having some fun moving and dancing. Other than that,

Craig 27:01
do you think that’s carried? Like, I wonder if that’s in the DNA of how you move now like to think that’s, like, I’m wondering, and you probably can be like, Oh, wow, and but I’m wondering if you, you plan on like you don’t incorporate dance if you’re working with kettlebells. But I’m wondering if somehow you’re not trying to recreate that experience for the person doing the kettlebell routine? or other activities? Or?

MaryBeth 27:22
Yeah, I don’t know. I mean, I’m pretty silly. I mean, after doing I think it takes both. So after doing, say, a kettlebell move that maybe like I said, snatches or squats, or just something, and it takes a lot of tightness, and tension, all right, and power. And then we put the bell down. And we do like fast and loose, which is like the shaking and the releasing, and I’ll kind of say like, you know, a dog trying to dry off, you know, shake everything out. And we’ll do a little dance there. I mean, it’s super, you don’t have to if you don’t want to it’s like you know anybody’s forced. But it’s, you know, an invitation to like, really just let it out. Because it takes you need to ask your body for both tension, tightness, and relaxation and letting go. And so sometimes, I think there’s this I come to work out. I want to get tight. I want to get toned. But you also want both actually. Right? Yeah, yeah,

Craig 28:19
balance? Is there a project that you’ve got rattling around in your head? That there’s a piece missing from I can give you an example, if you’re like what you’re talking about? You want an example?

MaryBeth 28:33
Well, I don’t know if this is what you’re going for. So I’m working on a project, I sort of just had inspiration to put together some thoughts on sleep, as it relates to breathing. So that because a lot of times I’ll talk to people about so how are you sleeping? You know, if we’re talking about how you’re training, and how you’re moving recovery, and you know, of course, you know, eating not that, um, dietitian or anything, but just like how are you eating? Like, are you are you? Did you eat breakfast before coming? What are you doing at, you know, just general conversations around. And I think a lot of people know what we eat is our nutrition, it’s pretty important. But a lot of times, you know, we don’t think well how I sleep is going to affect how I recover and how I feel and how I perform. And you know, my overall health. So I’ll check in with people on that. And so I put together this project, I sort of just on a whim, I just made a PowerPoint slide of, you know, slides where I talk and I go through what I’ve learned share, you know what I’ve learned about breathing drills, and you know, just what good sleep looks like what restorative sleep sounds like, right? And what to look for, because sometimes you might have a health concern that you’re not even thinking is related to sleep. Right? And it may not be I’m not saying everything sleep, but it also could be so the solution might be improving the quality of your sleep. And then you know, the spiral Exactly. So I put together this whole project and and I love it. But now, I’m not even sure what to do with it or like how to package it and get it out to people. So like I it’s more of that’s the missing piece for me right now like getting it on, say my website or so it’s like this technology piece that I’m still working on, because that is I look at this and I’m like, we are high tech right now with microphones. I’m an outdoorsy sort of meet with people work face to face. So now I’m sort of learning this whole like world of technology. And is there a way that you know, you can put it on the website but not lose, like the format? So anyway, that’s my missing piece right now is that’s I

Craig 30:42
think that’s super interesting. It’s it’s always interesting to hear what sometimes people have ideas, and you clearly have a thing that you’re like you’re ready to make. That’s cool. Thank you for sharing. So you’re talking about tech, there isn’t that much tech on the table least I don’t think he’s on the table. But this is a very different experience. So when I give like the probably should do a behind the scenes video, at some point, if someone wants to help me with that, because I wanted to video, we should do a person behind the scenes video show what the guests like there’s a whole guest experience yet like the Craig show, Craig shows up with a bag and stuff. And then I’m quietly trying to figure out where we’re going to interview and then I put this microphone in front of your face, you’re like, get this thing out of here. And then I give you set of headphones. I’m wondering, when you first like, you know, like Craig’s gonna come over and we’re going to record so probably gonna be using micros like, it’s, you know, what’s gonna happen. But when I get here, and I said, I’ll off and then there’s like, this moment of like, Oh, you want me to like sit in this chair in front of this, you know, like, you move it a little bit, but you’re basically sit here. What What was your? What’s your feeling now? Like? 30 minutes into like, being in this space? What are your thoughts on how you thought it was gonna be versus how it actually is?

MaryBeth 31:45
I mean, I’m comfortable. Now. You know, it’s fine. It’s just it is different than anything I’ve ever done. Or, you know, I’ve not had a big microphone. And

Craig 31:54
did you have to? Did you? Did you go to breathing? Or like, did you like, Alright, I’m gonna sit here and I’m gonna like check in to see if I’m doing okay in the space or not mindfully,

MaryBeth 32:02
I did not think like, okay, use your brain. It wasn’t that like, much. Like, I’m just along for the ride here. I’m just what we want to talk about in terms,

Craig 32:13
I’ve thought there are different three different ways to mic people up. And you can do these little mics I like clip on and that he gave him like to have wireless things. And then we could literally just walk around and wave our arms. And I find that my experience has been, it’s particularly challenging for movement, people who are used to moving, there’s kind of like a limit on how long these things can be improved. Like, I need to stand up for movement. My first

MaryBeth 32:35
thought I was like, are we gonna be sitting still for three?

Craig 32:38
You’ll notice that I tend to like, move around a lot. How about like moving and slouching, and especially when I’m not talking? If I’m not talking? I’m not like right here at the mic. I’m like back here. And we can totally take a stand up break halfway through. That’s easy. I’ve often wondered about if movement people that I talked to see, long ago, I interviewed a guy named Dylan Johansson. And he he said this wonderful thing that he I don’t remember where he said he got it from. But he said it used to maybe it’s his own original idea. Sorry, Dylan. It used to be that I went out and couldn’t move until I had thought about it. So I would think in order to move, he said, Now I just go on, I move in order to think. And I found that that’s a very common experience. I was like nodding at the time. He said it and a lot of people not along. And now I’m wondering, with the podcasts be different if I figured out how to let the movement people move while we did them. And it would be one difference, I’d be going a lot. But I do often think about I have to stuff you into this artificial environment in order to capture the audio quality. So I’m just curious if you have any feedback is why I asked that. It’s a little meta little Craig meta.

MaryBeth 33:49
I mean, I just relate to that I relate to I move, and then think, or I moved to think, and that just resonates like yeah, I get that. And I can just, it doesn’t even have to be say like a run or like an otter breath type. Yeah, heavy training. And it’s not even like, Oh, I just feel like I I need to exercise. So I’m constantly moving. It’s not it’s just I tend to move. So with letting go of stopping myself from moving. Yeah.

Craig 34:22
What about crawling? I want to say I love quadrupeds movement QM. Like, I’d love to hate it because it’s not easy, right? But it seems to me that a lot of people who get into movement, they they kind of go there like it’s at some point people get back down on the floor. And and then they’re just like, Oh, right. This is this. The I don’t know if it’s the contralateral because you can do contralateral or bilateral, but a lot of times it’s that contralateral. So do you think can you remember when that came back into your movement and like do you go there for particular, like I have a particular mood or I don’t want to say dysfunction, or mood or an issue I want to work through I’m gonna go and QM is how I’m gonna address it like how do you use that as a tool for yourself?

MaryBeth 35:11
Yeah, I mean, I love crawling, I think crawling feels great. And I think it’s incredibly powerful to make to build strength to build mobility stability. So I utilize it a lot. When did I start? Geez, early on, I don’t know, early on early on. But I think when I first started training, crawling, I tried, I saw it as like the judgment piece of like, you should be able to do this longer, you should be able to do this better. You see these Parkour videos and stuff. And the they look like beautiful, right? You know, and you want to be able to em on a rail, you’re like, Yeah, I wanted that. And I didn’t have the, I didn’t fall in love with crawling from that. That was like, Who wants to do things that they’re judging themselves while they do it, right. So so it sort of didn’t stick. But then what I went to was rolling around on the floor, so your whole body is on the floor. And you’re doing various ways of flowing up and down from laying on your belly to rolling onto your back from rolling on your back to back to your belly or standing up or squatting. And this more of up and down are flowing. Tons of moving around floor play floor, rolling around that you’ve just created that sensation, like I like this, and I want to do more of it. And then from that, I started to approach crawling very differently. And it was like crawling, you know, because now you can see how that just naturally stems in there. Right? So then it was like maybe two or three steps, forward, three or four, five steps backward, sideways. And then you’re like playing with the crawls. But it was that word playing it was playing with them to see what felt good, what I couldn’t do how. And it was not like like, so when a baby moves. They’re not they’re not thinking, I suck at this. And they’re thinking like, I want to get across from this point to that point. And maybe they’re motivated by something they see because they’re curious. Right, right. And so I try, I mean, I didn’t think of it then. But looking back on it, that’s how I started to tap into it was more of like curiosity, and for movement sake. And so, you know, starting to, then so that was the a different approach. So then I started to integrate different cross, right, diagonal crawling, backward crawling, you know, all fours. I like that, you know, low knees up, or, you know, lizard crawl or whatever. And, and even now, you know, it’s like, you can slowly start to play with well, playing crawling outside one time, we have a challenge of crawling all the way around the house, you know, so from the front porch, down the hill, around the side here and up the hill, you know, in you get different textures on the ground along the way. So sometimes you’re going through grass, sometimes you’re on rocks sometimes. And that’s another whole fun experience. Yeah. So I think everybody who comes to my classes loves when we curl.

Craig 38:21
I was just gonna say, Do you have trouble getting the data first, or most people are they’re in for In for a penny and brewbound?

MaryBeth 38:28
First of all, I always say you know, do what you can, right? So if it’s uncomfortable, because it’s just a challenge. That’s one thing, but if it’s like, actually it hurts, that’s another whole thing. So I want to be clear that like I always find what works with where you are. But yeah, you know, sometimes there’s a little bit of chocolate, but you know, they come keep coming here and I always crawling fixes everything.

Craig 38:52
I don’t know fixes everything. But I know what you mean, I say I agree with your calling fixes on an awful lot of problems. I just like to say this is my attitude most of the time it Yeah, fix it, you

MaryBeth 39:03
know, again, without the judgment and without, you’re crawling to the point that your mouths hanging open, you’re miserable about the habit crawling, but doing it quietly and smoothly. And so enough time it feels like more connected to nature as you crawl like thinking of an animal or think you know, or thinking of a child if that works better for you and like how would they crawl? And if they didn’t feel like calling anymore? Would they keep going? Or would they go ahead and like take a break.

Craig 39:29
Anything else jumped in mind that you want to talk about you do have security as

MaryBeth 39:34
well, some of them were doodles from earlier. I want to just talk about really just what it means for natural movement. Like what is natural movement? Not that I’m like the person that gets to define that for everyone. But if you’re asking me I would say you know, the way we’re wired or built to me Woof. So but it’s less about the actual movement, like what I’m saying is this. So you could say is walking natural movement? Well, yeah, probably right? We’re pretty much designed along, right? But what if you’re walking with your head down looking at your phone with your mouth open breathing heavy? Is that so it could say, well, if we want to focus on return to nature type of idea or more of a nap, making a little bit more naturally since like, how about like, really walk with posture up and look where you’re going? And look, look around and, you know, see what’s ahead of you, or what’s the sign, you’re just pay attention. And not even for, like, security mean, of course. Of course, there’s that right. But even just for like, noticing things, just like not letting all of it passed you by, like, notice the clouds notice the moon, notice, you know, the trees, or the leaves, or the flowers, or whatever it is, you know, notice, and just take it in, and just let so you just don’t miss all of it. You know? So to me now, so again, is naturally movement. Yeah, it’s walking. But you can apply that to anything. But you can also make it even more natural, if you will.

Craig 41:18
Yeah, you can go deeper with that. Be more mindful? Yeah. Do you practice any specific, like regular mindfulness or meditation, like you have, like, everybody has their own personal needs, but I do for my own recovery and stuff? Do your particular practices that you want to describe? Well, I

MaryBeth 41:35
pray. So that’s meditation for me prayer. And typically, that’s, you know, gratitudes thinking of things that I’m thankful for, and breathing with them and expressing things for them. And then there’s the breathing practice, which isn’t exactly the same as meditation, but I don’t really know how we’re gonna define what definition of meditation or we’re gonna go with. So it’s kind of like, right, like, is it or isn’t it? So I find sometimes people will say to me, like, I, they think that they have to meditate to work on breathing, right? And a lot of people don’t want a tough nut to crack, right? A lot of people don’t want. I know, some people love meditation that can’t understand this. But I do find a lot of people who will say, like, I can’t meditate. And I think they think what I’m hearing from them is this, they think they’re supposed to stop thinking. And since that doesn’t seem to be working, then they think they can’t meditate, you know? So

Craig 42:32
I wouldn’t, I would agree with you, by the way that that is what I would agree.

MaryBeth 42:35
Yeah. So what I say to people is you can work on your breathing, and you don’t have to meditate, like, let that go. If that, you know, even though I know like there’s people who could help you, and better understand meditation and understand you don’t have to do it that way. But you can also work on breathing and you can, and when I work on breathing, it isn’t like in some meditation that you have, where you don’t try to change the breathing, you just breathe, and you just sit with it and notice it. So I take my breathing meditation practice, to I do start to play with it, I start to adjust the breathing. So typically, that would mean slowing it down. It would mean noticing if I hear it, like can I hear myself breathe, right, and playing with being like a ninja with my breathing. And then even to the point of even though we know you we talked about like the movement of breathing and how you have this natural expansion and contraction, right of 360 degrees around your body, right. But you can also play with, like Ninja breathing, and see if you can like, not no one could even see that you’re breathing like you imagine like your mannequin, right? And you’re breathing. And no one can even visibly see the movement. And you can just breathe in and out through your nose really quietly, they can’t hear you, they can’t see you. As you know why it’s just really it’s really useful. mental practice, mental practice, it also calms your breathing and quiets your breathing, which actually can help you have better oxygenation. So, you know,

Craig 44:14
and that is that the parasympathetic nervous system can be deactivated by breathing, if they have the right,

MaryBeth 44:24
right, so Well, I got it right. So parasympathetic, I think the paramedics are coming. Right. And that’s good. Because if you’re an emergency, yeah, you want them so just go

Craig 44:36
with me on that. Okay. Yes, no, brilliant

MaryBeth 44:38
rest and digest breathing. Okay. Sympathetic now. So, you know, it’s not just good, bad, right? It’s both and it’s a balance. So sometimes, the sympathetic system here gets a little you know, but yeah, there’s a time and a place and it’s a balance of the two. Right? So, but yeah, If you want to focus on better rest, better sleep, better digestion, recovery, heart rate variability, we need a balance of the two. So how you breathe absolutely can play a part in that, in regulating that. So you know, slowing down your breathing, because when we hyperventilate, that that is emergency or right that that is how we breathe during stress and what what I didn’t realize, because I thought, well, there’s life stress or something happens. And it’s going to, you know, elevate your pulse, right, you breathe faster. But it goes the other way to that, like, if you start to breathe fast, you’re also elevating your stress.

Craig 45:44
Right? Right, that either one can drive the other

MaryBeth 45:47
either one, they it goes both ways, right? It’s so bi directional relationship there. So if you’re feeling like, you’re starting to get really out of breath, with your training, you are creating that more stressed response, right. And listen, I’m not saying there’s never a time and a place to huff and puff. I’m not saying there’s never, you know, I understand to understand the relationship, right, but understand the relationship and understand when you’re doing it and why. So if you’re going out for a run three times a week, and every single time, you’re huffing and puffing, you know, and really breathing heavy, and you’re also someone who maybe feels like you do have some stress, you do notice that there’s some, you know, stress symptoms in your life, right, then maybe, you could just think of slowing down that run just a bit. So the point that you can breathe comfortably through your nose, even if that means walking, even if that means walking. And I also think you’ll enjoy your run, and then you’re more likely to be consistent, or your walk or whatever it is your hike, or whatever it is, right. So I think it’s a matter of slowing down, breathing through your nose. Or maybe it’s not slowing down. Because as I say that there are you know, there are you can do a lot of training through your nose if you train the system, right? So you can go you know, fast, but I’m just saying in general, if that’s, you know, if you’re seeing a stress response, which could be insomnia, waking up in the night, could be, you know, restless leg could be anxiety attacks, or panic attacks, or countless things right? Or just feeling irritable. Right. Then also do look at how you’re training and also how you’re breathing and how you’re breathing while you’re training. And are you enjoying your movement? Practice? Does it feel like, I’m glad I did it. And I enjoyed it. Or is it? I suffered through it because I want to lose weight, or I want to reach this goal or whatever. And um, we all have days, like where we might love our job, but we don’t you know, you don’t feel like getting out of bed or whatever. Like, again, like Yeah, but is that the most of the time right past time? Just now? And then like, what is that and just know that there’s always so many movement practices out there? Like if you’re not, if it’s not still working for you, whatever it is, right? Maybe it’s time to try something totally new. Like, you could be a rock climber who now is transitioning into Krav Maga or I don’t know, right, like rock climbing or, and you know, just that concept. And you know, Julie, Angela’s great about this about showing the things that people can take up and start doing after you know, or in midlife or after midlife, whatever, you know, and just show like, you can start any movement practice at any time. I don’t know, I still think there’s this idea that like if I didn’t do like, say soccer when I was in school, I can’t do it now. Like I’m, you know, are you 45 And kind of want to go learn how to play basketball. I don’t know, like, I know that you can do it. You know, I know that you can reach out and find community people. And I just think if you’re in that place, that you’re not enjoying your movement practice, you don’t have to settle for that. Like, there’s so much that you can just go out, find something new, try something if you don’t like it, try something else keep going. And, you know, I think we all know that. But I still see a lot that there’s times like you just need to hear it again. And realize like, that means me, you know?

Craig 49:33
Yeah. Terrific. What do you think? Let’s see so many questions, so many questions. And if you have questions, you’re allowed not to return to the quick show, but like if you have like, what made you ask that question or something I’m always open to discuss. I’m so I in my head. I’m imagining people who listen to this and go Yeah, that’s great. But you know, like talking to the two of us. Yeah, that’s great. But Craig seems to have the free time to travel Yeah, that’s great. But you know, you have a house for clients in the woods. What do you know if you encountered people were in this situation? But what do you say to someone who, when you look at them, you’re like, Okay, you’re clearly need to make a change. And they know they need to change something. But the thing needs to change is really like their environment, like you’ve moved out of the city. But you were conscious of that. And but that’s a significant change. And how do you? I don’t know, how do you open heartedly try to help people when you’re No, yeah, what you got to do is knock the whole house of cards down, because problem is at the bottom, the problem is the relationship you’re in or a matter of a job spotter, like okay, fix this problem, what I’m just like, that will be a really good thing. If you have any advice on that front. Yeah,

MaryBeth 50:47
well, you know, I trained as a social worker. And the reason I say that is because I really have the utmost respect for each individual to know what is best for them. And so I don’t actually ever approach it, really thinking that I know, like, what they need to do. I really don’t like and I, I will talk to people openly and share what I’m seeing if I think but I would, you know, usually ask questions and really trust that they will move on whatever they need to move on. When they’re ready to move on it.

Craig 51:26
That’s a great point. What what questions give me some examples a question because people listening couldn’t do it. They’ll Here you go. Here’s Mary asked. Mary Beth asked me the questions or you ask them of yourself.

MaryBeth 51:35
Yeah, so what kind of questions I guess it would depend on the situation we’re in but just general, like, if they say something, questioning it, like, how come? What? Why is it like that, like, and I’ll literally say, like, I’m not actually challenging you and telling you it’s not this isn’t a question as a disguise for statement. But can you tell me more about that? Why got it done, you know, depending on what there Yeah, unpack it a little bit. And really just coming from that place, though, is key of trusting that they will, they are their own best expert, and that they will know what to do. And when to do it. Now. I will give feedback. You know, like I was saying, if I notice, like, like, they’ll usually share things with me like say something it’s like with drinking wine, that’s something like a lot of people will say like, so I’ve been coming to the classes. And I’m doing this and walking and you know, all this, but I just, I’m still going to drink that wine, you know? And I mean, I definitely didn’t start off the conversation by telling them to stop drinking the line. So, so. Right. Right. So that would be like, you know, a question. And so then usually, like, you know, I would literally just follow up that, where’d that come from? Or, you know, do you want to stop drinking the wine or, you know, like, whatever the you know, whatever, sort of naturally, or whatever the thing, right, yeah. And so that in that is the thing, like, I don’t know, necessarily what exact diet is right for someone? What exact training plan what is? I mean, I know that sounds crazy, because it’s like, it sounds perfectly rational, right? Like, it’s totally depends, like, they have their own history, biology interests, you know, and I just come alongside and, like, ask those questions and how, as best as best as I can, I’ll share information, you know, but I’m really operating from that place of, we’ll give it a try. See how it’s working, adjust as you go, adjust just the sales, and see where it takes you. And it usually works pretty well that people like, like, respond to the questions. And like, I mean, because again, it’s truly coming from like,

Craig 53:50
and sometimes it’s very startling, they’re like, oh, that’s actually a nice thing. Thank you. Enough.

MaryBeth 53:56
Yeah, in the like, I hadn’t thought of that. Just to question the beliefs that we have. And there’s a lot of beliefs around movement, you know, that change is hard. That’s a common belief Change is hard, or training is hard. And we just still, you know, I’m generalizing. But so many people in the movement, fitness sort of world, you know, we do sometimes sell it as like, you’ve got to keep working really hard push through, never miss a Monday and all that. And the thing is, is that, like, I’ll tell people, like, you’re in this for life, right? Like, that’s the idea. So what sustainable, like, you know, and that you can waive the load sort of speak. In other words, you can hold back a little and you can come up come to class, be consistent, have a great time, but it’s okay to take the really light bell or just do bodyweight squats. Like you don’t always have to do the double kettlebell, whatever, you know, and it’s really important actually. So you know, the other end of the spectrum is the people who want to like, just be on a slope, you know, you’d like just going up the hill. And every time they just push harder, they do more they do they go up. In kettlebell size, they go up in reps. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, we need to like, weave this load. So yeah, you get, you get kind of both ends of that spectrum. And it’s really finding the balance. Not being afraid to push not being afraid to work hard. But then also not thinking you have to always push and work hard.

Craig 55:24
You mentioned that you’ve trained in social work. Did you? Did you work? I’m guessing worked in social work after you do that? Because? Because what I want to ask is, what was it like to have to choose in your career passionate about that? So what was it like to transition from that to whatever you did next? I’m assuming you went from there to, we’ll call it free style coaching. What was that? Like? What what prompted that?

MaryBeth 55:48
Well, actually, I worked with children with special needs and their families. And so I actually feel like it was a natural progression. Because when I was doing that work, I was able to see human development, both between maybe the child that has a developmental differences, and then maybe a sibling, who may be you know, developing neurologically typical, and you could work on their dynamic, they’re in a relationship of how they can still just be siblings that play and fight and bicker and play again, and all that. And, you know, also the parents, so, so what I did was I did home visits. So I would go in and sort of see this child in their home environment and how the parents may be have this idea of what they want from the relationship. Right. And so, maybe they’re thinking, they’re taking their child to different therapy appointments, you know, this is what it would typically be like, Okay, we have speech, then we have a lunch break, then we have OT, you know, then we have, we are right from there to this sort of other ot that does sensory integration. Now we come home, go with them, I would like get in the car, drive along. So I we get to see, well, what was it like to transition between the appointments? And what was it really like for you and for the child and for the you know, the for the whole family? And how can we help? Like, because therapists often weren’t working on the goal of like helping the child get buckled up, or helping the child and like the day to day of transitioning from the garage to coming into the house without it being, you know, sometimes a struggle. So I created games, talk to the parents really just listened, what would help what would make their day go more smoothly, right? What do they need, so we would put together ideas on that and try to help problem solve that and really make it fun, make it interactive, so there would be a motivation for the child to do the thing. And then also, what I started to see those from looking at that as well. If all these things that we’re working on, in therapy makes such a difference, like balance training, and the sensory experiences that we’re having, and you know, they’re I mean, OT, right, wonderful, so many gems to learn from just watching and observing when occupational therapists work. And I started to realize, with my own kids, eventually, that we could integrate this for everyone, right, and then started training more and more physically training and just like raising kids, you know, you need like the outlet. So I’d go for my run or whatever, you know, that was kind of all happening. And then it was like, we could really work on some of those skills, those sensory integration, the importance of crawling, importance of rolling around on the floor, the importance of balancing, and we could make it fun. Course, as fun as we can anyway, right? And then next thing, you know, you’re like, doing physical training, like that looks kinda like maybe,

Craig 58:56
can I come to right? Yeah,

MaryBeth 58:57
can you do? So we would, you know, set up rocks in the yard and jump from one rock to the next or pick it up and carry a rock or go on a bear hunt, you know, where you’re, like, reenacting and then of course, they get older than stories get more elaborate, and now you’re having laser tag battles, or no, they grow and change with you. And you don’t try to keep the same movement practice that you have, you know, when they’re four that you have when they’re 14 or whatever. So, and then, you know, moving with adults who really want to play again, but might not know it, but then once they get started, guess what? It’s like the the initiation of starting like, you don’t usually say like, do you want to play it’s like, no, do you want to work out? Do you want to train or even, you know,

Craig 59:44
we’re gonna do this game. Yeah, right. But then,

MaryBeth 59:47
as you get going, like really having a lot of fun and a lot of laughter and just that movement, and it’s like, letting games evolve and big Capture the Flag battles.

Craig 1:00:02
I’ve been seriously injured in Capture the Flag. But that’s another story. Well, thank you for sharing that, because I think it shows, like sometimes I think it’s easy to see the end result, you know, to see a well produced video, or to see like an Instagram account, you know, and then go like, well, how on earth? Did she ever figure out? Like, how did like, how did that shot get in that video? And there’s a long, long journey to get to, you know, when somebody says, What should we put the video, you’re like, I think I’d want to start with this movement. And it’s way more than just, I thought about it that day, or I planned the day before with an outline. It’s just like the whole hits. It’s that distillation of the whole journey. And it’s important, I think, for people to see, like, where you’re coming from, and what are all the ingredients that went in? And like, would it have happened if you hadn’t had children? Would it have happened if you hadn’t homeschooled, like, all everything comes together. So that’s all in one workout that you teach or one Instagram, video, they share something. So I think that’s just part of my personal curiosity is to just like, see, like, well, what’s behind, you know, like, here’s a coach, you know, here’s somebody doing spectacular piles. And I’m like, Well, what’s, what’s the story behind that? And then they go and ask, so

MaryBeth 1:01:23
spring the mind? No, I was just thinking, as you said that, you know, like walking through mud, you know?

Craig 1:01:32
walking through mud?

MaryBeth 1:01:33
Yeah. Look, so yeah, unpack that sensory experience, right. So like, you know, I live down by the river. So there’s usually pretty easy to go down there and find some mud. And it’s something so a lot of times people will talk about, you know, barefoot training. And most of the work we do is typically barefoot unless there’s some of the just, you know, it’s better for them not to be than respect that but, you know, there’s so much that you can get for bounce and movement.

Craig 1:02:10
nerves in your feet as there are in your hands. Right. Sorry,

MaryBeth 1:02:13
right. So, you know, as you can see, there’s different surfaces. So we have the grass, we have the cement, we have the little stones, the bigger stones, and then you know, like mulch and other things. And then as you go on the trail, you have the the sensory experience of walking on the trail. And I’ll tell you, my enemy is the holly leaves when they fall. And you’re like, really, you know, like, that could be like a little Parkour game, right, like, tiptoeing, you know, it’s not the floor is lava. It’s like, it’s covered and holly leaves that are Pokey and spiky. And it really is. So no, so it’s not always, but some times they are. So you’re going down there, and then you find this nice section of gooey, gooey, squishy mud. And it’s really fun. And people will usually light right up when they get their feet in mud. I don’t know exactly what that is. But most people, and they might say at first, like, there’s this like, and I don’t really want to, they have like, their adult moment, right? Where they’re like, No, and, you know, again, I’m not making anyone do anything. But usually, if it’s a small group, some one or two people start and before you know it, the rest of them are gonna be down there walking through that mud, and they’re gonna start like, just and that just brings out the smile, like when they were kid, or what I imagined them to sell, you know, and that sensory experience, and I, you know, I just thought of that as we were talking because it’s like, when, like going back to therapy, what I learned is, you know, they’ll have sensory bins for kids, right. And even if it’s not therapy situation, right, you’ll have your, your sensory

Craig 1:03:56
toys, here’s, here’s a little because it’s important.

MaryBeth 1:03:58
That’s why and it’s not just important when you’re little, and you’re growing. And it’s not just important, if you are developmentally, you know, delayed or, you know, have a difference or something, you know, it’s also important for everyone. And so, being in nature and being outside and seeing the world as a big playground, essentially, or a place that you can train obviously in a place that you’re allowed to be in everything not like you know, but I’m just saying like, in the parts of the public spaces or whatever, you can train and so many things and you can get these sensory experiences you can balance on those little logs that are down or you know, fallen logs, or you can balance on the, you know, on the parking lot and like the curb bumper things and can you jump from one to the other and then sidewalk and, you know, there’s always so it’s starting to open your eyes to seeing the opportunity. So I like to say it’s like, invitations and opportunities. So it’s not, coercion is not Like, you should train this, you should do it this long, you should do this many sets and reps. It’s like, there’s a time and place for that. But you know, move beyond that to, like, go out, start to see things. How would you know your kid play on that? How would your cousin play on that? How would your dog move on that? Try it. Thanks. Thanks. You know, you get ideas. So I just thought it out with mud, because that’s the time I see people’s face light up and it stays with them. We come back, we walk through the creek again. So their feet get clean, we hose off, and the smile stays. So that’s kind of like, okay, this is natural movement. Like, this feels good, right? Yeah. So what do you think? When was the last time you were in some mud?

Craig 1:05:45
I was actually trying to think about that. I’m like, Oh, I It’s certainly not within the last several years, it’s probably that’s a good question. And now I’m thinking, Oh, I have a feeling I know what’s gonna happen when we’re done recording. I’m like, fortunately, I have shoes and socks, which I can take off. What I was thinking while you were talking, as I was thinking about the tactile feeling of stones underwater is another thing where you’re, where your vision is disconnected from, not like completely disconnected, but like, you can’t quite see what’s going on down there. And I was wondering if part of it is the in the mud, you’re not quite sure you can’t quite see. So you’re forced to just sort of be more in the set in the sense perception of your feet, not to dodge your question about mine, I don’t think I know when the last time I was walking in mud. barefoot, I probably could think of when they last walk through my

MaryBeth 1:06:39
walking through a river when you know, or you know, a creek or something. And sometimes you can’t exactly see your footing or the surface is very uneven. We get a lot of that too. And, you know, that can really slow you down. And you know, that can be a good thing. Yeah, right. Or you can wear shoes, man, there’s, you know, there’s lots of ways you can work around this. And you know, make sure it’s right for you depending right on the location. And you know, what you want to do?

Craig 1:07:05
If I stepped on a piece of glass? Well, well, how likely is it that this glass here? Or how likely is it that? Yeah, that would happen?

MaryBeth 1:07:11
Yeah, and you know, our rivers, you know, I’ve not really ever, you know, we found cans and stuff, and sometimes tires, that will actually have fun, like trying to get out of the river and make a whole like, adventure of going down and trying to retrieve the time, they can be really stuck and try to get them emptied out and up the hill, the slope and then wheel them back. So we can, you know, use them for something. Yeah, or recycle and whatever they do when they take them. But that’s, you know, again, like that idea of finding things that are around you in your environment. And even if you’re not in a natural sort of setting like this, you know, you might be in more urban setting. But there’s still, there’s always opportunities. Yeah, you know, an urban environments often have a lot of really cool classes. And, you know,

Craig 1:07:59
yeah, because it forces the people who organize them to like, have laser focus on, I’ve been with certain people and like, you stumble on a pocket park and somebody’s like, drop their backpack and be like, alright, we need to find 75 unique precision jumps, which was like four foot by eight foot. And you’re like, alright, well, I could jump from every one of those bricks, to the combinations of you know, like, and all of a sudden, your brain just is like, Well, I happen to have a general problem solving machine strapped to my head. So I’m just gonna go into it. And that I was, I can never remember like, Did I talk to you about this that I talked to someone else about? It didn’t get recorded? I was just having a conversation with someone talking about one of the reasons that I like the movers mindset project that I do these conversations is sometimes I’ll have a conversation with someone it isn’t like fireworks. Like it isn’t like, we’re talking about spy Taylor Johnson, we’re talking about world records. It’s just like a very casual thing. And I think one of my points is I’m personally curious, and I love going into home or this is going into with curiosity. And people who listen to a podcast who at first glance, they may think, isn’t going to be super interesting. They’re like, well, I’ll give Craig the benefit of the doubt, or I’ll give this guest the benefit out or whatever. Guess what, I’ve just tricked you in the listener into doing I’ve just tricked you into practicing being curious if I’m presenting you with something that you think might be boring, or not as exciting as it might be. And then they’re practicing that curiosity. So this, the whole thought, when you’re talking about walking in mud or walking, you know, in obscured footing in a stream, it’s kind of like, well, I could just, you know, get out of here like visually, like, No, I’m going back to my shoes, but for some reason, you know, it’s like you step in and you’re like, Well, I didn’t explode. So I guess I’ll continue being curious about what’s going on here. And that that innately slows you down, like you innately go well, if I’m going to be curious that I might as well what one step is as good as four so that all like feeds into itself that idea of following your curiosity and being outdoors. But sometimes I account them Later, I can, as soon as I want to bring to make trays that you put your boots in by the door of their money, I want to get one of those trays and fill it with rocks, you know, like small and golf ball sized, fist sized rocks, and like put it under my desk, and then just be like, I have to work, you know, okay, but I’m gonna sit here until I hit my feet on rocks or something. I haven’t done that yet. I’ve also I’ve actually, my wife and I have actually discussed doing this, putting pavers, like outdoor pavers in hallway, and just like he’s got like a horse mat or something, and then just line the pavers up. And like you can kind of like, try it, because we’re gonna record the hardwood floors. And I thought that’d be cool to walk on those different textures to have obstacles that I want to trip in the dark.

MaryBeth 1:10:38
Some type of like balance being tight, you know, board or something.

Craig 1:10:41
Yes, I’ve I have actually done that. A couple of like, I did it and tried to two times and decided I was gonna kill myself but took a two by four that was in pretty good or geometric shape, and put it on the on the thin edge at the sink, and try to do the dishes standing on it. Because it’s pretty easy to stand on a two by four like this. No, it’s not. It’s just like it was a reversal thing. And it’s like bang the two by fours flat. It’s like, whoa. But yeah, those little opportunities are chances for movement.

MaryBeth 1:11:10
Yeah, and you know, just letting them be outside and just go outside and find them. You know, and you know,

Craig 1:11:16
the overhead. I think one of the things that a lot of people, like there’s a whole area, this is another conversation I was just having with someone and it wasn’t you. I was talking about this whole there’s like a space up here, I’m waving my hands, right? Can’t you see people where I can’t see like, if I stood on my back against the wall, palms away from the wall, like a go all the way to the bottom, and then like halfway up works. And then it’s like another 20 Oh, that’s it, and I gotta start leaning back. And that whole space up there. I’d become more and more interested in exploring the more than I try to rock climb. It’s like, well, there’s a nice hold there. But I have to move over or I have to lean or something. And I’m wondering if there are things you’ve seen that have been successful to get people to begin to explore Breakey ation more, because it’s not, it’s really, like completely deleted from the American in the normal world. The normal world has lots of breakage, but the one that we mostly live in, has none of them. So are there other things that you show them that just make them go? Hello, like, and then that lights that up? Yeah,

MaryBeth 1:12:16
it’s a good one. Because you know, when you come into my studio, you’ll see I’ve monkey bars on the ceiling, and

Craig 1:12:22
brain because anybody kill myself in a backpack? I’m like, no, no, no steak pay, stay focused.

MaryBeth 1:12:27
So almost always, it’s the start of a session, like, in my work with someone who’s new, they’ll come in, and that’s almost always will be talked about, because they’ll see it. And they’ll either say like, oh man, you have monkey bars. Can I try them? Right? No. Or they will say, Oh. And reassure them that that’s not what we’re going to do today. You know if that if it’s clear that that’s like, Yeah, I’m not helping you. And I have had people who come and train with me. And they will say like, I haven’t done that since I was a kid. And it starts that conversation of like, how did you move when you’re a kid? What did you like, when you’re moving? For joy for play? And you know, and so I’ll start to get insight on whether they were like having fun on the playground and felt like they could really move and oh, yeah, I was, you know, a story will come, right. Like, I was the fastest one, or I was the only one in my class. Every other Yeah, like, or it will be like, even when I was a kid, I couldn’t do that. And I wanted to. And so now I have some insight onto how they might approach their movement or how they might have some feelings associated with that, or feet. You know, it’s just a start, right? So, and I’ve worked with people to the point that even older retired people who will now be saying, like, I can do the monkey bars. And that’s so exciting, and just lights them up. And so yeah, we don’t start necessarily on day one before I even know if they can do what you were saying with the arms overhead, you know, like so through the natural movement modalities that I do, I can start to really see what works for them, you know, like getting down on all fours? Can they can they rock back and forth? Is it comfortable to get down? Can they easily get back up? Do they can they crawl, do they and they do bird dog. And then one of the crawl techniques that I do for overhead type work on somebody who it’s safe to bring their arms overhead. It’s just not something that they’ve been doing often is that type of crawl I call it like the bear crawl where your body makes that big capital A Oh, Hi, can

Craig 1:14:44
you keep your call? Hi, can

MaryBeth 1:14:45
you keep your butt, right? Because it puts a lot in your heads neutral, right? So you’re kind of looking maybe like towards your knees. But you know, and you keep your arms and legs as straight as you can and you crawl a few steps forward and back and so now Now they’re starting to get that overhead weight on their hands. And, you know, we kind of check in with that. So yeah, that’s feeling build with that for a while. And then we’ll start with hanging, you know, where, you know, you put a box or something so they can start to get the grip, and not lift their feet up just yet, unless, you know, they’re ready for that. And they’ll just hang like Active and Passive hang, you know, and build hang time. And sort of it, you know, to how far we go with it kind of depends, right? Like, could be quickly moving on to side swing traverse, you know, where you’re swinging and swaying. And it’s all about, that’s a fun one. Because people realize it’s not that they that they have enough strength, because a lot of times people will think I’m not strong enough to do it. But when you use momentum to your advantage, and so you’re not just trying to muscle through it, and you get the sequence and the timing and the flow, then you think, Ah, cool. But of course, then you need to know, like, if you’re have them up on the monkey bars, can they jump down? Which now is a landing? Yes. Right. So it all kind of see how it all next thing, you know, we’re we’re working on jumping and landing so we can land softly and make sure that their body is comfortable with that, right. So that’s how we would progress that and just work up to that. And then I would do you know, break eating with one. And so you’ll see like people monkey bar first. Typically, it’s like when a kid goes down the steps for the first time they do like one lead leg, then the second leg catches up is a trail and a leader, right? So they’ll a lot of times, that’s how people will start brick eating or, you know, a monkey barn. And they’ll do on, and I’ll see which is their dominant lead. Just interesting, right? And then maybe we see can they lead the other just to start, like, work in it? And then maybe can they go ahead and reach a little further and start to really extend? So it’s really, I mean, that’s in summary, of course, there might be other things we do along the way. And it’s all you know, can you breathe while you’re hanging? Are you holding your breath? What do you do? Can you can you hold tension, and tightness, like a hollow position and still breathe? Right? So once you can do that, and like really still breathe diaphragmatic ly, and still get that movement but still be holding tension? You’re good to go.

Craig 1:17:20
Anything else to bring to mind? There’s lots of

MaryBeth 1:17:23
No? Do you have you done any monkey monkey barring lately?

Craig 1:17:27
I haven’t done any Well, it’s funny, it’s it’s funny, you should mention that I was gonna bring it before so I have a small little transit van you Marybeth has seen it with the average person wouldn’t have seen it. And I feel so much better after I spent days traveling and working and camping in the van. Because it’s all it’s not like regular QM but it’s all like this. Hands go here sidestep, watch your head, the all the door frames have grab handles. So I’m constantly like, left hand on the floor right hand on a frame when I step out in the dark, or there’s something on my leg and the richness like it’s small, I don’t I can’t stand up inside. But the richness of the environment is ridiculously complex. Like there. There are spaces on the sides when I open the doors. And it’s like you do like a seated squat, but you have a thing to hold on to. So it’s like just super easy to like squat down and then work on the thing and then stand back up. So I haven’t can’t break eight in the van. I’m not even knees, little space. But I’ve tried to think when the last time I’ve been doing more intentional intended for climbing like fingerboard work and hanging on there. I’m not able to podcast brought to you by dogs, there’s I’m not able to fully hang on my left hand I can I can do a very brief dead hanging on the right, and then quite enough grip strength on the left. But when I was thinking of that I’m like, but I’ve also lost a few pounds in the last week. And I’m like, I probably could maybe try an actual full swing through. But that’s not something I’ve ever been very good add to hand swinging, I’m pretty confident I can like swing on angles and and move around. But it’s definitely very heavy for my grip, or I’m just getting locked up. And the problem is not a week to promise that I’m heavy. Not that I’m weak. But I haven’t done it in maybe a couple of weeks unless I was hanging on a bar.

MaryBeth 1:19:12
Yeah, that’s actually a lot. You know, a lot of people who will start with me will say like, I haven’t done any hanging for years. Yeah, yeah. I mean, unless they’re like training or actively already in the movement.

Craig 1:19:24
I only do it because I like I bought Scaff and like there’s Scaff bolted to the ceiling of our patio and I have pull up bars, like only because I went you were talking before about your environment. I went I want to do more of this stuff. So okay, I need to put a fingerboard above a doorway somewhere. And so that did that. And now it’s like anytime I think of it, I could just walk over there and stick my fingers in it and pick my feet up. So but it’s only because the only reason the answer isn’t like I don’t know is because I went to the trouble of modifying the environment. That’s the only way you’re going to do it. Sometimes they say how what would the world be like if all of our doorways were only three feet high? Like by design? That’s how it’s always three feet. That’s the way we build them. We’re not sure why If the rooms are normal, but the doors are short, we don’t know. We’d all be a completely different kind of like we’d all be able to do the down and up and the three legged some

MaryBeth 1:20:07
great duck unders there. Yes. And then, you know, the next thing is thinking about like hanging on different surfaces. So whatever your usual surfaces, can’t What if you’re out on a trail and you found a tree? You know, the tree could be really wide branch. It’s a totally different tech. Well, pretty different technique for hanging, right? Yeah, so rampant challenge, right, versus a very shallow branch and, you know, things aren’t smooth like they are. And there’s Yeah, like all you know, and more connection to paying attention, like to the state of the tree, the nature, you know, is it covered in ants right there, I might I just walked right by normally and not notice. But like, before I grab it, and

Craig 1:20:49
like, the lamb is gonna come off, right.

MaryBeth 1:20:52
But you know, a lot of times, people think of like pull ups, which you know, are awesome, but there’s so much more climbing techniques that are out there. Because, you know, if you actually say we’re out on a walk, and you said I just want to see if I could get in one of these trees. Can I find a tree any tree? Can I get in it? Can you know can I find a way to get myself by any means up this tree?

Craig 1:21:18
Just juggling you the dog he’s popping up in the door and touching his nose to the doorknob like hey, you with a thumb turn this. The when you when you talked about climbing a tree I think it was episode. I know it was episode six was Paul graves. But I think it was Paul, who mentioned and I don’t remember the the full story, but I think he had, like he spent a summer just trying to see how many different trees he could climb. And it that’s like a it’s a tough challenge. But it’s a brilliant way to go at it. Because the first thing you realize is it’s not easy to climb a tree like a lot of trees are like, wow, you need to be able to like do the walk up a pole kind of thing to get up them. But he was making some observations about you really get to know like, I can climb that tree. And I did actually just try to climb a tree like three days ago, failed miserably at it and was really like disappointed in my inability to climb it was a rather small tree. So I had to grab it like just in a certain way. And when I grabbed it and put my foot on it, all the bark, you know, came off and my footing slipped and I was like, I think I need to find another way to get there. Somebody had stuck something in the tree. So began climbing trees is but again, that’s, that may be something that a lot of people don’t have access to in urban centers, but you can still look for climbing door jams or climbing light poles caution those aren’t meant to be climbed on there lots of vertical, a lot of times the center the the main posts on fences, you know, can be climbed or hung from

MaryBeth 1:22:44
and there’s parks, you know, a lot of big community parks and stuff. And sometimes, I mean, obviously, whatever your area allows, but sometimes you can find something to climb. And you know, it’s just that idea of like, wherever you go, you kind of start to get your eyes on like, yes. Is there a tree I was calling to me? Is there a tree I think I could get. And you know, I think the thing is you don’t have to go high like because you know a lot of times people think climbing tree you think how high get get to the top,

Craig 1:23:11
that’s not necessarily my weight from flat footed to

MaryBeth 1:23:14
just get my feet, right. And even if it’s like a foot pinch technique where you’re kind of just holding the trunk. Or one of the other techniques just to get your feet off the ground or you actually getting up in the limbs of the tree somehow but always working within like safety of the tree and safety of yourself. But there’s so many, there’s so many opportunities when you start seeing them. Yes, right. The other thing is you could do for hanging and stuff is like you know, the you know, the surface of like a wall, you know where it has the top and you can kind of hold it even if you don’t go Yeah, even if you don’t go all the way up and over. But just doing that cat hang and kettlebell carries. So we’ll we’ll integrate a lot of carries and that helps have have that crossover effect of oh, that made my hang my grip stronger which prepped me, you know, because you’re not always in there hang but you can usually mix it up between carries. Hangs, trees.

Craig 1:24:13
Lots of opportunities. Yeah. Anything else off of your notes you did? Like we only got the one I think or maybe two anything else you like, oh, I have

MaryBeth 1:24:23
to move down like Mulligan. That’s it.

Craig 1:24:30
Explain that because normally that word wouldn’t go out on the air. Moving on. What else?

MaryBeth 1:24:36
Oh, you know, I put body positive. I think that’s maybe talked about a lot in some circles. And I am really true to that. And I think the idea is movement with wherever you are like everybody’s body is unique and different and like sometimes people will think like, well, I should lose a little weight. So I can then go to the gym, or I will like just to get because, you know, there’s like, sometimes it doesn’t, that, you know, maybe not feeling great about how they’re moving or, you know, their body in some way. And I think that it’s just this message of like, even if you don’t have to just train because you’re trying to change the shape or the expression of your body, it’s also because it builds you up, it feels good. I mean, all this, like, the benefits to the heart, the benefits to the bone density than it was to just feeling good breathing better your health, your immune system. And I think there’s enough, like, I think some you’re starting to hear more about that, I don’t think it’s like, as rare as it used to be to really hear about that, but I still feel like I hear a lot of people come back around, like, you know, the before and after picture, you know, and I just, I want to say, you know, you know, it’s all different bodies, all different shapes move in all different ways, we squat differently from each other, we crawl differently from each other, and maybe it will sort of progress as you train more, or maybe it’s really just your anatomy, you know, in terms of how we use certain ways, right. But, you know, anybody, anytime, any shape, you know, like, anyway, I just, that was on my notes of like, talking about really creating a space. And that also goes with, like, overall ability, like, I have a class and we will have very, it’s not like by beginner, intermediate advanced, and it works fine. And it’s also mixed age. So it’s COVID, it’s, you know, I don’t have like little little kids, I’m not telling that but you know, like maybe 14 An hour or something to retirees, and you can train side by side. And you’re both doing the progression or the, the, the level that is right for you. You know, and I think you get an incredible benefit from interacting, and training next to someone, not

Craig 1:27:02
just the physical aspect of it, but yes, interact with that other person, right?

MaryBeth 1:27:07
And you understand, like, you have something to learn from someone who’s moving really well, because you might want to learn, like, how did you get there, but you can also learn a whole lot from someone who is struggling with some type of movement, you know, maybe they’re, they’re not really comfortable getting down on the floor anymore. Who knows why, right, could be a million reasons. But, you know, you can also learn about yourself from them, you know, as it goes both ways. And, you know, co Ed, because, you know, sometimes we get like, you know, in schools, and then, you know, communities I just, you know, sometimes it’s you tend to you what you want to build community of people you relate to so I totally understand this. And you know, but you might sort of only women only train with other women or like, mothers with other mothers or

Craig 1:27:54
right or like, Guys, the big jumpers with the other big jumpers, right.

MaryBeth 1:27:57
What else? Right, right. But like realizing like,

Craig 1:28:01
dog just jumped up in the window, as you can do some serious jumps straight up in the air, I saw the entire dog in the window.

MaryBeth 1:28:09
Yeah, she wants me she wants to join us talking about trails and jumping, and she knows it. So that whole dynamic of just being inclusive, and being cool with that. And really not thinking that like if you’re the fancy jumper, or you’re the one that can press like really heavy or whatever that like you need your own class from, say, the person who’s learning how to press or learn whatever learning how to jump, because if you program it, well, you can both be doing it. And both working on jumping at the same time. But once maybe feet aren’t even leaving the ground yet and the others doing that depth jumps or something. So

Craig 1:28:52
I’m those are I asked see everything that there’s an act of like how many times you go back to the well, you know, eventually. Cool. Yeah, I mean, it’s a pleasure. I’m glad we took the opportunity. So I think I would just say and of course the final question, three words to describe your practice.

MaryBeth 1:29:11
Let’s see three words, I would say. So many words popped into my mind, and it’s like, I would say, hope I build a practice off. I believe that I believe in the power of healing and I believe in the strength of the nervous system, and I think we’re designed to heal. So I think if we just give something you know, take some action, it will start things in the right direction. So I like to say that, you know, I believe in hope and as a concept, and I see it in action in my practice. The other I would say is the word practice. What I’m referring to is the art of practice or the consistency of coming back around and engaging in that practice, and seeing your movement as a practice rather than a performance. So I would say, practice for, I don’t know, I guess this seeing yourself always, as a student and always learning and not trying to get to perfection, and just make it easier each time. And keep moving forward. And then the third thing I would say, is restorative. Having movement practice, say I was gonna say, maybe sustainable, but let’s go with restorative movement that builds you up and restores you, whether that’s your spirit, whether that’s your body, musket muscles, bones, but it’s restoring you and enabling you to engage in the world and with people the way you want to, so that you feel like oh, yeah, I can get down on the floor with my kids or Yeah, I can jump that or I can hang you know, with that class or those that group of people and like, that’s what you’re striving for, is that restoration.

Craig 1:31:24
Thank you very much. Those are, as I always say, those are three terrific words. never ceases to amaze me how the words that people talk about at the end fit what we were talking about on the show. Thank you very much for taking the time.

MaryBeth 1:31:36
Thank you, Craig. This is great.